I agree with Mike. I practice my stance & stroke most every night using my kitchen table as a pool table. Have a small red dot table height on a wall as an object ball. When I'm in stroke I have a slip stroke that I can feel & hear. Then it seems I can't miss. If my stance is off I can't get comfortable & my stroke is off also. Then I can't hit the side of a barn. For me stance & especially stroke are all important. That is the 1st thing I look for when sizing up a potential opponent. Also it works against me if I'm trying to sandbag. My stroke gives me away.
Did Mark Wilson finally kill "aiming systems" ?
- Thread starter NineballTom
- Start date
Funny. One of the best local pool players I’ve known was a bit of a road player and vagabond at times. He said if he wasn’t able to play he’d just stroke at the kitchen table to keep his arm in gear.
mark wilson shoots VERY side ways
as you can see in the pics below
the most contrasted is snooker players
and then normal stanced pool players
so to me (i am not an instructor) its not that important
You're right Samiel. Most players that miss will say they didn't hit where they were aiming at. lol I may be in the minority but I am certain that aiming systems like CTE/Pro One are very effective in helping a player get their entire body in alignment to help with making a shot. There are so many reasons for missing a shot, I could write a book on it because I have missed so many in my life. The problem with all aiming systems is they aren't the silver bullet that some people are hoping for. And for others, they would rather hit a million balls rather than take a pool lesson or learn an effective aiming system. I also think that CTE/Pro One is different from other aiming systems, and it requires a lot more effort but if you look at the Facebook Group on that particular aiming system, you will see that MANY people have improved their game because of it. JoeyA
No aiming system by itself will make you a great player. That status comes from a dedication that is far beyond the grasp of most pool players. JoeyA
no not at all. An aiming system is a tool, same as the diamonds on the table. It’s not the magical answer. Cue sports require straight stroke, repeatable stroke, and timing, timing meaning a consistent hit on the cue ball during the follow through so that there is less concern that you are or are not hitting the desired location on the cue ball for position play and yes pocketing. The tools are an aide, nothing more. Put in the work and earn the reward.
cheers.
Systems won't shoot for you. They are just a way to identify exactly what you want to be shooting, when you shoot it. Towards that end, I recommend lining up the contacts.
Shape Shooter
New member
I look at it like this. The two are equally important. You can't have one without the other. Knowing where to aim is great but if you can't hit the aim point with the cue ball your miss frequency goes up. Also, you can have the best stroke/stance out there but if you can't find the aim point your miss freq will be big.
You can make any technique work, it just takes longer to perfect it. Not crossing the tape shot line with your foot forces hip rotation which helps keep your bridge hand, shoulder, elbow and grip hand in the same plane.
I always maintain that anyone that has played somewhat seriously for any amount of time uses an "aiming system"... it's just that it may very well not be something that has been formally constructed, named and taught. Most folks undoubtedly have a set way that they decide where and how to hit the ball, and they utilize it every time they address a shot. I believe it's ingrained as part of a players PSR. It's their own individual system of aiming.
To me, the marketed aiming systems are just an organized way for folks to use to give them some structure on the process. Perhaps a different way of approaching it than they had been using previously.
That's why all the hubbub about "aiming systems" here on AZB is so amusing to me.
To me, the marketed aiming systems are just an organized way for folks to use to give them some structure on the process. Perhaps a different way of approaching it than they had been using previously.
That's why all the hubbub about "aiming systems" here on AZB is so amusing to me.
Did you bother to read the book? The stance that he is showing you here is for CLEARANCE of your stroke away from your body. Mark points out that one of the biggest stroke flaws that causes a lack of a straight stroke is a LACK of cue clearance from the body during the stroke. I was 100% guilty of this myself UNTIL I found Mark's book and actually used a video on my own stroke. His right foot toe location is ON the true shot line from cue ball contact point THRU the OB contact point- therefore the cue itself MUST have CLEARANCE from the body when stroking.
Furthermore- Mark clearly states in his intro- some pros just have played so many thousands of hours that they will make balls and get position DESPITE obvious stroke flaws. The INTENT of the book is to instruct so that a beginner or anyone can get on track to much more effective play without having to give up their day job-- but it will still take a long road to achieve great mechanics.
I did read the book and its great…doesnt mean one way is the best or only way
mark Wilson is the only instructor I am aware of who advocates your back foot be that far from the shot line
and if you look closely his toe DOES NOT TOUCH THE SHOT LINE
there must be a reason no one else advocates this
there must be adequate clearance with the other foot positions since across the various cue disciplines this foot placement is not taught
if someone is having problems with hip clearance then changing the stance is obviously a solution
i am not saying mark is wrong
only its not the only way
He is more concerned about clearing the cue stick from the torso area of the body, not the hips, as one delivers the stroke. So many players end up with a left to right hitch ( right handed players) in their stroke bc they do not have adequate stroke clearance - without realizing it, bc the cue delivery begins too close to the body, many players push the cue away from their body as they stroke the cue so as not to hit their body with the stroking hand. This practice ( which is so very common- just observe in any pool room) really hinders straight stroking-
Mark states that those without proper stroke clearance must put in thousands of extra practice hours to compensate for this one fundamental stroke flaw. He never says that his way is the only way, in fact he admits to many pros over the years with serious stroke flaws, the intent of the book is to save one from not knowing what is wrong with their game or having to put in thousands of hours to compensate for fixable stroke issues.
In my younger days, I took lessons from some of the best- World Champions and 300+ ball runners- not one of those guys ever mentioned my own stroke flaws that I just did not know seriously damaged my potential in the game until I picked up Mark's book. it is never too late to learn if you still have the physical and mental abilities-
Wayne Crimi
Member
I think this is mostly correct when it comes to aiming center ball shots (with some exceptions), but I think players miss a LOT of shots because their aiming adjustments for squirt, swerve, speed of shot, distance of shot, cloth type, ball conditions etc.. are not correct when they apply varying degrees of English. It has little to do with stance or stroke in those cases. It has to do with the complexity of those calculations.
Also, when I was playing my absolute best (around 30 years ago - I'd estimate 625-650 Fargo peak), there were still a couple of angles that were more difficult for me to "see" than others. I would still miss one of those here or there not because of my stance or stroke, but because I thought I was seeing the shot correctly but wasn't. I even remember the feeling of shock when I missed. My stroke was fine and hit exactly where I wanted but I missed.
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Some players have always been interested, focused, absorbed, and obsessed by systems -- oh my gosh by golly, take one look at the *four volumes* of systems compiled by Walt Harris and you'll know what I mean.
But perhaps for most of us, amateur and pro, pool s a very organic process. Throw a wadded up paper into a waste basket; hit a drive or a putt; maybe a nice forehand or backhand from the baseline; a jump shot, or a baseball swing... there are no systems for much of what can be scored as a point when it comes to sports.
And so it is when it comes to pocketing balls and playing position on a pool table.
Don't get me wrong -- broken down to its essential elements it is a very serious, difficult, and precise beast we build every time we get down on a pool shot. Sometimes we plop down and it just happens that we are perfection manifest. But more often than not there is that tiny or big bugaboo that throws us out of alignment and we curse and rage.
After awhile, we all know how to aim, but executing and putting the CB on the money and making it travel just so is always a bitch.
Lou Figueroa
But perhaps for most of us, amateur and pro, pool s a very organic process. Throw a wadded up paper into a waste basket; hit a drive or a putt; maybe a nice forehand or backhand from the baseline; a jump shot, or a baseball swing... there are no systems for much of what can be scored as a point when it comes to sports.
And so it is when it comes to pocketing balls and playing position on a pool table.
Don't get me wrong -- broken down to its essential elements it is a very serious, difficult, and precise beast we build every time we get down on a pool shot. Sometimes we plop down and it just happens that we are perfection manifest. But more often than not there is that tiny or big bugaboo that throws us out of alignment and we curse and rage.
After awhile, we all know how to aim, but executing and putting the CB on the money and making it travel just so is always a bitch.
Lou Figueroa
That’s how I look at it. Everyone has an approach to aiming. It might be a numeric system. It might be a geometric system. It might be a visual system. Or something else. But everybody has a way of aiming and as far as I’m concerned, that is their aiming system. Nobody shoots pool blindfolded.
Sure, NOW someone tells me not to shoot blindfolded.
soyale
Well-known member
i don’t think it would make much of a difference for me
Everything you know is probably already catalogged and curated at Dr. Dave's!
MoFUDAT Center-Ball Pool Stroke Drill - Dr. Dave Pool Info
Answers to frequently-asked questions about MOFUDAT (center-ball stroke drill).
billiards.colostate.edu