Cool. Understanding forms...
Did Mark Wilson finally kill "aiming systems" ?
- Thread starter NineballTom
- Start date
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
I was watching a bit of the Scottish open and Oscar Dominguez hit a couple of nice long draws and it didn't look like he hit them hard. Like what I would shoot four diamonds and draw back one, he drew back five diamonds or so. I guess I know what I will be practicing tomorrow.
Zerksies
Well-known member
I use a method that helps me visulaize getting the ball in the whole
Zerksies
Well-known member
I have no problem vizualizing the system for me it's just not accurate enough for ME.Aphantasia is the inabilty to create mental images. Ghost ball has never worked for me because i can not actually picture it. I never knew this was a thing until a few years ago. I never understood how people could picture things in their head, when i just really associate things them with concepts or definitions.
Aphantasia: Thinking That’s Out of Sight
Aphantasia is a characteristic where you can’t form mental images to “see” things in your head. Learn more about this trait.my.clevelandclinic.org
Oikawa
Well-known member
Yep, well summarised. Three years ago when I was starting to grind the game and work on my technique multiple better players instructed me to steer away from that sort of rifle-shooting style approach to cue alignment, and I did for some time, then tried a shit ton of different approaches over the past few years (natural hand hanging position from repeatable PSR, visual microadjustment relative to OB-CB line when down, same but relative to CB-eyes line instead of OB-CB, subconscious adjustment when down, etc.) but gravitated back to the chin-method eventually since it is the best and most consistent method I've found by far. I guess it's not for everyone.
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Majority of players pull the trigger chin on the stick. So if you can arrive at the shot line your way, should be sound as SVB.
I don't believe it does. Most amateurs need instruction on aim.
For example, a professional player might use bottom-right spin to throw in an OB, while an amateur would rely only on the vertical axis for shaping the shot. This is partly because amateurs often haven't practiced using spin and lack the touch and feel required for spin strokes. I recently watched a professional train students, explaining how to combine vertical axis with sidespin and the effects on cue ball path, deflection, and other factors, which I would categorize not just under stroke alone, but under "aim."
Oikawa
Well-known member
The way I see it is that the logic of deflection, SIT, CIT, swerve, etc. must first be understood (e.g. more swerve if more elevation = more compensation required). Then you practice the basic spin shots to develop a more intuitive feel of which effects to compensate for in which shots. And through practice your intuitive compensation becomes more and more accurate, eventually requiring no conscious thought for making the adjustments.
All of this assumes solid fundamentals and a solid method of aligning the cue for sidespin. If you keep applying sidespin in different ways for the same shot, you won't get consistent results, and therefore won't learn the proper adjustments effectively.
So, to re-iterate what you said a bit differently, I wouldn't say amateurs need instruction for aim, but they do need the instruction in the form of an understanding for what those various effects (deflection etc.) are, then they need a good technique, and then they need to understand that simply by repeating the shots, if your technique is good, you intuitively learn to adjust on your own eventually. The biggest trap is forgetting the importance of a repeatable technique, and that if it's lacking, all shot results will have noise in them that hurts learning.
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soyale
Well-known member
in this link (time stamped) mark wilson talks about his super expensive tape and that you shouldn’t cross the shot line with your foot. i have always stepped directly on the shot line and i feel like i have plenty of clearance from my ribs. thoughts on how important this is or isnt?
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
Yeah, I know the fresh cloth helps a lot, and my table is pretty gritty, but it still looked like an exceptionally smooth, relaxed draw.Tournament conditions.
Care to detail this? No Ho Wholes please.
Strictly based on my own experience, and not having had Mark Wilson teach me his technique, I say it's hogwash. I'm kidding a bit, but I've been working on my stance a bit and really trying to find those little variables. I'm right handed and my vision center is my left eye, and that does make a small but important difference. I'm about 5'-9" and I crouch pretty similar to how you see baseball players stand with their hands on their knees. My right heel is approximately centered on the shot line. I feel like I'm on the right track because, since I've been doing this, I'm getting a lot less unintentional left English.
Stroke over the top of one of these bad boys and see what works for you. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley...wZz1ktu-cPTEpbx235BoCuoEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
In addition to being left eyed, I also have trouble focusing my eyes when looking severely upwards and am uncomfortable bending my neck back so I have to bend my knees to get my back further from horizontal and my chin is a few inches from my cue.
@Oikawa
@MmmSharp
How do you guys assess what you need to change when you miss?
If I’m reading correct, you use your knowledge of what you observe standing to dictate the real time shot picture when you are down on the shot. The way you slot your cue gives you feedback that lets you know you’re in line.
When you miss and look at the post shot layout, there are a variety of things that could have led to that outcome. Maybe you hit the wrong part of the pocket, didn’t hold the tangent line, not enough/too much side etc. How do you ascertain what the contributing factor is after the fact? I’m sure you don’t just say it could have been any x amount of things and move on.
Also, something I do when facing a “tough” shot is to visualize a time where I was successful in a similar situation to create a confident approach. What do you do to maintain a confident mindset under adversity?
@MmmSharp
How do you guys assess what you need to change when you miss?
If I’m reading correct, you use your knowledge of what you observe standing to dictate the real time shot picture when you are down on the shot. The way you slot your cue gives you feedback that lets you know you’re in line.
When you miss and look at the post shot layout, there are a variety of things that could have led to that outcome. Maybe you hit the wrong part of the pocket, didn’t hold the tangent line, not enough/too much side etc. How do you ascertain what the contributing factor is after the fact? I’m sure you don’t just say it could have been any x amount of things and move on.
Also, something I do when facing a “tough” shot is to visualize a time where I was successful in a similar situation to create a confident approach. What do you do to maintain a confident mindset under adversity?
Oikawa
Well-known member
I categorize my mistakes by:
1. Non-aim related technique failure (hitting the CB in wrong spot due to arm not going straight, moving the body while down, muscle tension, bridge hand instability etc.)
2. Misjudgement of aim (wrong intuition of the required CB/OB overlap)
3. Not keeping the correct aim (typically from rushing the transition or moving while down)
As for how do I know which was the issue, a mixture of experience and observation. After pulling the trigger, you can see if the CB has the intended spin, where the OB misses and by how much, etc. So for example, if I'm practicing and miss a tough cut by a little, I'll try again and see if it was just bad concentration or intuition being slightly off. If I miss by a lot, or keep missing the same amount many times, I will re-assess my technique by shooting a few straight-in shots. That usually tells me if it was a aim-related or technique-related miss.
Don't want to make this explanation too long, but to summarize, once you start being more aware of your technique's intricacies, it becomes easier and easier to know what type of technical reasons are behind particular misses. And when the miss is aim-related, it's a sign that you need to put more reps in for that particular shot. No matter how hard the shot, after shooting it 100 times it goes in at a higher % than before.
The key is to put those reps in only once you know it's not a technical issue and you are missing due to wrong aim only. 100 shots with a crooked stroke only reward you with faulty intuition and mixed signals.
Trusting the technique and process, reminding myself to just follow my carefully crafted instructions and know that it will work well as long as I do that. After selecting the shot, my PSR is deliberately crafted to require no high-level thinking or decision making. No conscious microadjustments, no math, no conscious aim selection. Just simple steps one after another that are so simple and concrete that there's no room for ambiguity or fear.
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Cuenique.
It depends on the personality of the player. Some players need a methodical approach. They also need to quantify things, like aiming, for example. It's a personality trait. They do that with other things in their lives as well. Other players aren't as methodical. They feel what's right rather than quantify it, and with a minimal methodical approach. Most athletes tend to be in the second category. Both types of players will get the job done. But as Mark lays out --- both types at high levels have a solid stance and stroke in common.
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I work backwards from the outcome to understand what happened. The OB and CB ended up where they are for specific reasons. I plot out the series of events that caused the outcome, having the knowledge to understand why that happened which tells me what to do to duplicate or change the outcome.
I understand how it works, so i know what to do to fix it. Then it is a matter of repeatedly executing the fix to drill it into my body. I am very good at building process and sequencing events. A big part pf my career is documenting and implmenting processes and training others. I read a great deal about pool, and Dr. Daves scientific explanations strike home for me.
I know my biggest issue is stance and body mechanics. I always need time to stretch and work out the "kinks" after a long day at my desk and commute home. If i dont stretch or move my body, and go in cold, i can not line up a bih shot. I try to get 30min to an hour of play/practice in before any serious matches to make sure my body mechanics are lining up.
But you might not hit what you're aiming at, if you don't AIM......!
Mark was in the top 20 and ran like 190 balls in straight pool. He can play and has a lot of knowledge . I took a lesson with him a few years ago and it was a great lesson. Allison Fisher takes lessons with Mark once a year and they go over the basics like alignment stance preshot routine. There are a lot of top pros that can’t really teach what they do to others. Mark is one of the few to not only be a good shooter but a good instructor . Mark breaks things down and explains them in a clear precise way then gives you exercises to improve those things in your game.
I like that there are no break cues. Anyone know when break cues started being used on a regular basis by pros?