Did Rodney Morris dump in his match against Deuel?

People here want to make high level pool a legit sport.

But can you imagine legitimate concerns with NFL, NBA, or MLB players not giving it their all during a high level competition?

Until pool can cut it's ties with gambling, this may be something that will hold the game back.
 
Blackjack said:
Aaron
It is no secret that some players have the reputation for making deals. Given the different scenarios that could have been advantagious to certain players, then conversation is fair game. Also, I think you have this backwards. It is right for people to talk about it - it isn't right for the deals to occur. I'm not saying that they did or they didn't make a deal. I'm just saying that there is no difference in "dumping" and "not giving 100%". Its just Clintonesque semantics.
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I too believe there is no difference in "dumping" and "not giving 100%".

I personally consider it my duty when in a tournament to play every match as hard as I possibly can, and to do my best to stop my opponent from progressing further. Freidnship has no bearing on the matter.

If I slack off during a match, I am doing my opponent a disservice by not making him "earn" whatever place he gets in the tournament. I want to be the guy that people start saying "Yeah, I had to play Russ Chewning in my second match..It was a tough match." about.

Plus, if you ever slack off, how are you going to intimidate your opponents when you play them? Perfect, or nearly perfect play intimidates. Sometimes on an off day, this intimidation is what gets you through to the cash.

Look at Reyes! :D

Russ
 
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Gregg said:
People here want to make high level pool a legit sport.

But can you imagine legitimate concerns with NFL, NBA, or MLB players not giving it their all during a high level competition?
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You mean like when the star players sit out the last game of the season once their team clinches the conference.
 
ARM9BALLER said:
Sorry you feel that way about Rodney. He is one of my close friends and when I am there and he is around fans, he seems to have a great time. He loves to make people laugh. Maybe next time you should strike up a conversation with him. I guarantee you he will have you laughing your ass off. I don't know what's up with the cell phone. I can't speak for him. Maybe it was a bad day. ARM
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I am open minded enough to give him the benefit of the doubt. As I said, I was only around him for a short time. That certainly isn't enough to make an accurate personality analysis, but you know what they say about first impressions.
 
Gregg said:
People here want to make high level pool a legit sport.

But can you imagine legitimate concerns with NFL, NBA, or MLB players not giving it their all during a high level competition?

Until pool can cut it's ties with gambling, this may be something that will hold the game back.
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you mean how Vince Carter screwed the Raptors because he wanted to get traded? Or maybe Alonso Mourning refusing to play for the Raptors even though he got traded to us?
 
If Morris "dumped" or slacked off, for Corey to advance and a great player like Bustamante to get eliminated (providing that is the case), than that is just smart play on Morris's part. Money in pool is hard to come by and prior to the IPT, 90% of "professional pool players were (and maybe still) broke. So trying to make a buck more here or there no matter the means or the person is prevalent to making a living for these guys. Especially since most of these players have no other means of making a living, if it wasn't for pool.

Don't think for a moment that the other players, who are friends or from the same countries have a some sort of plan for winning or advancing in tournaments, especially, big money tournaments like the IPT. Its just strategic planning on their parts. Is it collusion-yes it is. But you have to some proof of it to expose it. The best player will win most of the time because of their skills and determination to win...
 
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I personally would hate to think that he intentionally dumped, but then again, that is another strategy that can be cleverly manipulated during round robin events.
However, not playing up to 100% in a match because he'd already wrapped up is advance to the next round? Happens all the time in sports. Pulling Jordan out in the last minutes of the 4th quarter when the bulls had a substantial lead. Sitting your best quarterback out the last game of the season when your team already has a playoff berth. And most obvious, world class track and field athletes. Sprinters always pull up at the last 10 meters during prelims when they've got the top two finishes in their heat locked in. High jumpers, long jumpers, and pole vaulters jump/vault for the qualifying height/distance, and then sit out and pass until the competition reaches the level they desire instead of wasting energy and risking injury to clear minimal standards.
dave
 
Jerry Yost said:
Do ,,,,,,. If you think he did, do you find that ethically wrong?
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discussing ethics in pool is useless.

but dumping in some form or other exists in the bigger sports too. accusations fly all the time in bball, fball, and baseball at the end of the season when teams rest their players or take it easy in a lost season.

what would a player do if winning meant facing efren next,,and losing meant facing joe shmoe?
 
I think ...

that Rodney might have experienced an 'exhale' after he discovered that he had already advanced, sort of a relief, and maybe just went through the motions with Corey, not really concentrating, thus being less than '100%'.

That happens all the time to players in different situations. How about players that struggle to get to the 7 or 8 ball, think they have it made, and then make a silly mistake giving their opponent an easy out.

Many players take things for granted once they feel they are 'over the hump'.
 
Tokyo-dave said:
I personally would hate to think that he intentionally dumped, but then again, that is another strategy that can be cleverly manipulated during round robin events.
However, not playing up to 100% in a match because he'd already wrapped up is advance to the next round? Happens all the time in sports. Pulling Jordan out in the last minutes of the 4th quarter when the bulls had a substantial lead. Sitting your best quarterback out the last game of the season when your team already has a playoff berth. And most obvious, world class track and field athletes. Sprinters always pull up at the last 10 meters during prelims when they've got the top two finishes in their heat locked in. High jumpers, long jumpers, and pole vaulters jump/vault for the qualifying height/distance, and then sit out and pass until the competition reaches the level they desire instead of wasting energy and risking injury to clear minimal standards.
dave
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Your analogies do not hold...simply because you not giving 100% effort doesn't really hurt or penalize any of the other competitors in the field.

In a round robin format, the only way every gets equal footing is if you assume every participant plays with maximum effort. Once you begin dogging it, you not only hurt yourself, but you actually penalize the other players in your group who may depend on your opponent losing.

I have to agree with Blackjack...in a round robin format, not giving maximum effort is on the same ethical bounds as dumping.
 
First off, I met Rodney a while back, and he seemed very genuine to me. At the last SBE my wife was getting a t-shirt autographed by Rodney, and he said..." hey you want me to get some more guys to sign this?" she said of course, and off they went getting a bunch of guys to sign it. Would he have done it for me?....probably not.....my wife has better "equipment" than I do!! and is much prettier:D

As far as "doing business" is there a rule that sais you can't do it? I mean, the whole point of being there is to make money right? Obviously paying attention to how the matches shake out, and how that affects your outcome is just another tool to use to get you to the finish line.

I think we forget sometimes these tournaments are entertainment for us, but they are how these guys pay the bills in a REALLY tough business. Do all of us act in a perfectly moral manner in everything we do at work? I'm not going to throw stones.....I know I do jobs without permits for people who don't have a lot of money. I'm helping them, yet doing something wrong.

and lastly, this goes on in regular double elim tourneys as well. I saw it first hand while running an event. 3 ex-world champs got together infront of the tourney chart to make sure it all worked out to their advantage. Then mid game they walked over to ex-world beater and told him he needed to win, low and behold he magically ran 80 and out after not running 20 the whole game. I was a little peeved at the time, but could see why they did it. Oh yea, during the semis I heard them all say....we'll just throw it all in the pot and split it up in the end....:rolleyes:

Gerry
 
Turn it around. What if it were Bustamante and Reyes (or Manalo, Orcollo, etc) in that position. Do you think the Philipinoes would do "business".

In a freaking heartbeat.

Jake
 
Cardinal_Syn said:
you mean how Vince Carter screwed the Raptors because he wanted to get traded? Or maybe Alonso Mourning refusing to play for the Raptors even though he got traded to us?
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That's a fair statement, but how about those same people taking money for tanking games? Missing shots, poor passes, ect?
 
jjinfla said:
Turn it around. What if it were Bustamante and Reyes (or Manalo, Orcollo, etc) in that position. Do you think the Philipinoes would do "business".

In a freaking heartbeat.

Jake
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Jake, some people have higher ethical standards than others so be careful when you paint everyone with the same paintbrush.

Do you have any proof that Bustamante or Reyes (or any other Philipinos) would throw a match to favor one of their countrymen?

As I see it, the big mistake that Rodney made at the press interview was opening his mouth and then putting his foot into it. :eek: He should have kept his mouth shut or at least responded in a manner that would not have questioned his integrity. :rolleyes:
 
Good feedback!

I'm not trying to pass judgment. I'm only looking for feedback as it would be a difficult position to be in. If I'm in his position, my primary goal is to win the event and collect the best payday I can for myself and my family. If I see a 'strategic' opportunity I would struggle with the decision myself.

Collusion would be a different story altogether!
 
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