I just wondered is there a difference in just "linen" and "irish linen" because i've noticed in my ozone billiards catalog that these newer predators have a linen wrap i've never heard linen wrap mentioned before without irish being involved. my main question is what is the difference? And why don't more cuemakers offer just linen if there is a difference?
Difference between linen and irish linen
- Thread starter BigDaddyInc.
- Start date
BigDaddyInc. said:
Well since you asked...
Irish linen is linen produced in Ireland. Linen has been spun and woven in Ireland for centuries, and during that long period the Irish have gained the skills to produce the best quality fabrics. Linen is made from the flax fibre, which was grown in Ireland for many years before advanced agricultural methods and more suitable climate led to the concentration of flax cultivation in northern Europe (Most of the world crop of quality flax is now grown in Northern France, Belgium and the Netherlands). Today flax for Irish Linen yarn is imported from France, Belgium and the Netherlands. It is bought by spinners who produce yarn and this, in turn, is sold to weavers (or knitters) who make fabric.Irish linen spinning has now virtually ceased, yarns being imported from places such as Eastern Europe and China.
Weaving continues mainly of plain linens for niche, top of the range, apparel uses. Linen damask weaving in Ireland has less capacity, and it is confined at very much the top end of the market for luxury end uses. The companies continuing to weave in Ireland tend to concentrate on the quality end of the market, and Jacquard weaving is moving towards the weaving of specials and custom damask pieces, made to the customers own individual requirements. Fabric which is woven outside Ireland and brought to Ireland to be bleached/dyed and finished cannot carry the Irish Linen Guild logo which signifies the genuine Irish Linen brand.
Because of its strength when wet, Irish linen is the best wrap of pool/billiard cues, due to its absorption of sweat from hands.
I hear this all the time, and I have to disagree. After being fully impregnated with glue, pressed, and lacquered, linen wraps end up approximately as absorbent as Saran wrap. If they weren't so impervious, the white wraps would look like hell almost immediately. As they are typically installed, linen wraps resist picking up dirt and discoloration. If they readily absorbed sweat (and chalk and dust and beer) they'd be permanently stained in a nanosecond.MrLucky said:Well since you asked...
Because of its strength when wet, Irish linen is the best wrap of pool/billiard cues, due to its absorption of sweat from hands.
Irish Linen and linen as used to desribe the wrap on a pool cue are the same thing. The process to make it was developed in Ireland hence the name. "Irish" Linen is produced in a handful of mills around the world, not many. The quality does vary and it is shown when the wrap is installed and pressed. Good quality linen presses better and comes out smoother. It also depends on the skill of the installer as well as to how well the installed linen looks and feels.
Meucci is the only cue I'm aware of that laquers over the wrap (rendering it useless IMHO). My Predator, McDermott, Heubler and Joss all readily absorbed moisture. They were all wrapped with raw, pressed linen. I won my Meucci in a raffle and the first thing I did was sent it to a different cuemaker for a re-wrap with raw linen. The whole point of using linen is it's absorbtion qualities.
MrLucky said:Well since you asked...
Irish linen is linen produced in Ireland. Linen has been spun and woven in Ireland for centuries, and during that long period the Irish have gained the skills to produce the best quality fabrics. Linen is made from the flax fibre, which was grown in Ireland for many years before advanced agricultural methods and more suitable climate led to the concentration of flax cultivation in northern Europe (Most of the world crop of quality flax is now grown in Northern France, Belgium and the Netherlands). Today flax for Irish Linen yarn is imported from France, Belgium and the Netherlands. It is bought by spinners who produce yarn and this, in turn, is sold to weavers (or knitters) who make fabric.Irish linen spinning has now virtually ceased, yarns being imported from places such as Eastern Europe and China.
Weaving continues mainly of plain linens for niche, top of the range, apparel uses. Linen damask weaving in Ireland has less capacity, and it is confined at very much the top end of the market for luxury end uses. The companies continuing to weave in Ireland tend to concentrate on the quality end of the market, and Jacquard weaving is moving towards the weaving of specials and custom damask pieces, made to the customers own individual requirements. Fabric which is woven outside Ireland and brought to Ireland to be bleached/dyed and finished cannot carry the Irish Linen Guild logo which signifies the genuine Irish Linen brand.
Because of its strength when wet, Irish linen is the best wrap of pool/billiard cues, due to its absorption of sweat from hands.
Thanks for the interesting history lesson. This has nothing to do with pool cues, but many people are not aware of slavery in the western USA during the 18th and 19th centuries. Navajo women were particularly prized due to their weaving abilities.
In my experience, when playing pool in a really cold garage in the winter, my Irish Linen wrap starts feeling clammy pretty quickly. My assumption was that it is picking up moisture through condensation. If it wasn't absorbing this moisture, I would think I could simply wipe this "clamminess" away with a rag. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to work for me. I can only conclude from this that an Irish Linen wrap does in fact absorb moisture. Other explanations are welcome. 
When I play in a cold basement with my plain finish sneaky pete, the heat from my hand constantly creates condensation on the clear finish. If your wrap is well-sealed you could be getting the same thing.Cuebacca said:In my experience, when playing pool in a really cold garage in the winter, my Irish Linen wrap starts feeling clammy pretty quickly. My assumption was that it is picking up moisture through condensation. If it wasn't absorbing this moisture, I would think I could simply wipe this "clamminess" away with a rag. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to work for me. I can only conclude from this that an Irish Linen wrap does in fact absorb moisture. Other explanations are welcome.
Right but the lacquering is a more recent addition!
When I first started buying cues the wraps that were on them was totally different in feel and consistency than what I see and feel now! As stated they did get dirty much faster and the chalk capture was a real issue but personally I would rather clean my wraps than have these newer ones that feel stiff and do not absorb moisture! JMO
cuetique said:
When I first started buying cues the wraps that were on them was totally different in feel and consistency than what I see and feel now! As stated they did get dirty much faster and the chalk capture was a real issue but personally I would rather clean my wraps than have these newer ones that feel stiff and do not absorb moisture! JMO
Thanks everyone for all the insight. My thing with irish linen is that if i play over an hour the wrap starts feeling nasty,sticky,moist. And i've cleaned it that helps for about 10 minutes or so plus i've had it re-wrapped with new linen but it's the same thing any linen wrap i've ever played with does the same thing starts feeling yucky. Now i have a 10 or 11 year old mcdermott with nylon wrap and i never hear anyone say this but i love the nylon feels great the whole time i play i just wish the good cue companies had a nylon option!
My guess is that your linen wrap was put on with a water based glue, and either was not lacquered, or the lacquer has worn off. The moisture from your hand gets into the linen, dissolves the glue, and the glue leeches to the surface of the wrap. If you have someone nearby that repairs cues, it's probably a good idea to let him have a look at it. That gumminess can be eliminated.BigDaddyInc. said:
That makes sense -- nylon does not absorb water, so the moisture can't penetrate through the wrap and bring the glue to the surface.BigDaddyInc. said:
I learned to do wraps from a well known high-end maker, and all his wraps are put on with water based glue, pressed flat, lacquered, and burnished with a strip of waxed paper. They absorb zero water, at least until the light film of wax and all the lacquer had been worn off. If the wrap is still in good shape we clean it (with Chalk Off!), then lacquer and burnish it again.
I don't dispute the fact that some people may have their wraps mounted so they are absorbent, but I've never done one that wasn't thoroughly sealed myself. I would guess they would need to use some kind of solvent based glue, or else the moisture would be absorbed straight through to the handle, and would tend to bring the glue up and make the surface gummy.
Thanks cuetique very useful info sounds like the irish linen can be a "high maintenence" wrap.
Well, yes and no. It can be amazingly durable if properly sealed and cared for. I light coat of Butcher's Bowling Alley Wax every few months will ensure the lacquer never wears off. Butcher's doesn't leave any stickiness on the wrap, and keeps everything sealed out nicely. Just make sure the coat you put on is LIGHT, since there is a tiny bit of solvent in the wax, and it could take some color out of the wrap if you REALLY lean into it. Just a very light buff is fine.BigDaddyInc. said: