Differences between A, B, and C players?

[StormHotRod300]

This is my knowledge with ratings.


A- and up : typical run out players, and if they dont run out, they play lock-up safes. They are top notch at all skills, jumping, break, safes. And can generally run 2-4 racks or more consistantly.

B-,B and B+ : probably the toughest guys to judge, B+ guys can easily keep up with the A- players. And some B players probably play just as good as B+ or better. B- players are probably the norm for most pool halls. They range from your APA 6's to 8's depending on a few things, like how well they break and run out. Thier CB control is often a bit wild, sometimes it is always out of line, other times its, always in line. I know one guy who is a B/B+ player and on a 7ft he kills the 9ball ghost. And on a 9ft, he beat's the ghost probably even more often.

C-,C and C+ : typically your newbie's or just guys who havent been taught how to use CB control or have a weak break and just dont get a decent shot on the 1ball. most of the time these guys are your APA 3 - 5 skill range.
Generally thier saftey play is weak to lucky, and normally only look maybe 2 balls ahead when playing position.

 

[cuesblues]

I love playing Pro's or guys just below them, it brings the best out of me, I dont like to play weaker players than me, running over people dosent bring the best out of me, i would rather play by myself.

I don't run over anybody, I like to play tougher competition also, but when I get time to practice, I prefer to play against players a little bit better than me, or by myself. With my limited ability, I need to stroke the ball, and watching the other player run out every rack is great once in a while. I am only rated as a B and I recently won the top shooter trophy for the VNEA A-team 8-ball, but if I don't get quality practice , my game goes in the tank. I am always playing above my level, anyone plays better than me

 

[midnightpulp]

Blackjack recently got me into the 12 ball ghost. I find that for whatever reason it plays easier than the 10 ball ghost. I get better spreads off the snap and tend to make more balls on the break then I do breaking 10 ball. Last week I played a bit of the 12 ball ghost and put together a 4 pack but my best in 10 ball is only 3. Weird.

I am trying to get better at 14.1, however, and find it very frustrating. I tend to put together a few racks and just as the run starts to get interesting I screw up. I need to work on my focus. Nonetheless it is a great game and a ton of fun. It really works on the worst area of my game which is raw shot making.

What would you guys say is the expected runs of A,B,C and better players? I have heard that pros will consistantly hit 200 and shortstops are 100 plus. That about right?

A Few racks is very strong, especially if your main games are 9, 10 ball.

I asked Franciso Galindo once what his high run in 14.1 was. (For those of you who may not know, FG was a top player in SoCal) He said he didn't really play the game much and his high run was around 40. I found it hard to believe. Maybe he was being modest. Just goes to show you that some games can even give the best trouble.

 

[BigCat]

Just goes to show you that some games can even give the best trouble.

...or he just never played the game enough to surmise a high run worthy of his real talent. This is often the case with some of the top players who never really play straight pool.

 

[Dead Money]

For 9-ball:

A's Almost always get out.

B's Barely get out if things go great.

C's Can't get out.

 

[birdy]

What does it mean to play the ghost ?

 

[cmsmith9]

A few years back I saw a sign on a wall at Clifton Billiards in NJ...and it gave the definitions of pro's, A's, B's, ......if I remember correctly:

Pro's/Opens--1 miss every 4 racks
A's--1 miss every 2-3 racks
B's--1 miss every 1-2 racks.

something like this, I may be off by the amount of racks (sorry), but it made sense when I read it. This didn't include safeties and what not.

I am not sure how straight pool is gauged, but I've also heard it's how many innings it takes to run a 100. So if you consistently run 100 on a daily, pro...2-3 innings, A...and so on and so forth

Christian

 

[mattman]

I found this from another thread....just another way to measure your speed.

Rack up some 10 ball. Break from anywhere. After the break, take ball in hand and run out, in rotation (1, 2, 3, etc...) All balls made on the break count. Any balls made on a scratch are spotted. Once you miss, the rack is over. You should shoot 10 racks and count the total balls made for each rack. After 10 racks, take your total and compare it to this chart:

30-35 D+
36-40 C
41-45 C+
46-50 B
51-55 B+
56-60 A
61-65 A+
66-70 A++
71-up Pro

Our own Joe Tucker uses this as one way to rate his student's abilities. The rating scale for competing with the 10-ball ghost is published in his EXCELLENT booklet "Guaranteed Improvement Drills."

If no one comes up with it before this evening, I'll post it on this thread (this dang day job is definitely interfering with my pool habit).

 

[Aaron_S]

I'd say an "A" is just a slight favorite to beat the nine ball ghost.

A "B" player should be able to play the six ball ghost even.

A "C" player should be able to beat the three ball ghost but should be overmatched by the four ball ghost.

Not only is this the most concise answer I've ever heard to this question, it strikes me as being pretty darned accurate. SJM, I'm afraid I'm going to have to steal this one and use it as my new standard answer to this question.

Good rolls,
Aaron

 

[Aaron_S]

Blackjack recently got me into the 12 ball ghost. I find that for whatever reason it plays easier than the 10 ball ghost. I get better spreads off the snap and tend to make more balls on the break then I do breaking 10 ball. Last week I played a bit of the 12 ball ghost and put together a 4 pack but my best in 10 ball is only 3. Weird.

The exact same is true for me as well. I haven't done a detailed comparison, but I'd bet that I'm more likely to beat the 12-ball ghost than the 10-ball ghost, and it definitely is due to the break. I have a decent 9-ball break, but it seems pretty weak when I switch to 10-ball. I only make a ball 20-30% of the time, and I find myself facing a difficult cluster in probably 40-50% of the 10-ball racks I break. It's pretty brutal, but I keep pounding away at it because I like the game, and I know I've got to get something going on my 10-ball break.

Good rolls,

Aaron

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I'm certain each class will yield their own statistics but from a player's point of view, this is really difficult to observe. In my opinion, the classes are as follows -

D - Will appear as though they are stumbling through the rack. Their occasional run-outs will either consist of very easy layouts (which they will nearly mess-up), a few lucky shots and/or unintentional position.

C - Greater sense of cue control and much more of a deliberate appearance than a D. They will undoubtedly run out with BIH with 3 or 4 left and will make it look routine but are suspect beyond that.

B - Really the beginning of the run out player. If they make a ball on the break and get position on the 1 ball, they should have a reasonable expectation to get out. Any cluster or unusual position play will diminish their chances significantly. Usually, B players possess unusual strength in either pocketing, strategy or position play. Rarely two of three, never all three. Their creativity is usually limited at this level but you may begin to see glimpses of what's to come.

A - Definitely catagorized as a run out player. They are supposed to capitalize on most mistakes. Greater attention is paid to more subtle details. Expect a consistent and strong break and strength in multiple attributes (pocketing, defense, position play, creativity). Most noticeable among players at this level and above is an aura of confidence.

Open & Above is very similar to what you see described in A only more refined. You will see advanced to expert break, pocketing, defense, position play and creativity. Low level opens might be advanced in all of these catagories while world class professionals might be experts in most or all. All of these players are expected to run out with any routine opportunity. Any run-stopper situation (clusters, blocked position routes) is expected to be handled in such a way to still give the shooter an expectation of winning.


That's how I see it, at least. Within a few shots, I can always tell who is an A player or better just by their gait. It usually takes me a few games to see if they're better than that.

 

[Flettir]

What does it mean to play the ghost ?

I am with birdy, I play a lot of pool but I am unfamiliar with this term. So what does it mean to play the ghost?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I am with birdy, I play a lot of pool but I am unfamiliar with this term. So what does it mean to play the ghost?

Playing the ghost is a practice game. You break, usually take Ball In Hand and run out. If you do, you get the win. If you don't, The Ghost gets the win.

 

[cmsmith9]

I'm certain each class will yield their own statistics but from a player's point of view, this is really difficult to observe. In my opinion, the classes are as follows -

D - Will appear as though they are stumbling through the rack. Their occasional run-outs will either consist of very easy layouts (which they will nearly mess-up), a few lucky shots and/or unintentional position.

C - Greater sense of cue control and much more of a deliberate appearance than a D. They will undoubtedly run out with BIH with 3 or 4 left and will make it look routine but are suspect beyond that.

B - Really the beginning of the run out player. If they make a ball on the break and get position on the 1 ball, they should have a reasonable expectation to get out. Any cluster or unusual position play will diminish their chances significantly. Usually, B players possess unusual strength in either pocketing, strategy or position play. Rarely two of three, never all three. Their creativity is usually limited at this level but you may begin to see glimpses of what's to come.

A - Definitely catagorized as a run out player. They are supposed to capitalize on most mistakes. Greater attention is paid to more subtle details. Expect a consistent and strong break and strength in multiple attributes (pocketing, defense, position play, creativity). Most noticeable among players at this level and above is an aura of confidence.

Open & Above is very similar to what you see described in A only more refined. You will see advanced to expert break, pocketing, defense, position play and creativity. Low level opens might be advanced in all of these catagories while world class professionals might be experts in most or all. All of these players are expected to run out with any routine opportunity. Any run-stopper situation (clusters, blocked position routes) is expected to be handled in such a way to still give the shooter an expectation of winning.


That's how I see it, at least. Within a few shots, I can always tell who is an A player or better just by their gait. It usually takes me a few games to see if they're better than that.

Jude--Great response. The creativity and confidence comment was key...

Christian

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude--Great response. The creativity and confidence comment was key...

Christian

lol, I'm only hoping I didn't offend anybody! The last thing I want is to go to the poolroom tonight and have a whole army of D players looking to do the point & chuckle after all of my misses!!!

 

[cmsmith9]

lol, I'm only hoping I didn't offend anybody! The last thing I want is to go to the poolroom tonight and have a whole army of D players looking to do the point & chuckle after all of my misses!!!

Stop. You don't miss. There should be another category added, D, C, B, A, Open, Pro and Jude. Any D's give you crap...send them to me for some even up action...thanks..

Heard you're playing really well, good job.

Christian

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Stop. You don't miss. There should be another category added, D, C, B, A, Open, Pro and Jude. Any D's give you crap...send them to me for some even up action...thanks..

Heard you're playing really well, good job.

Christian

Hahahahaha, if only that were remotely true!!! I'm playing alright. I guess, like anybody, when I'm playing well, the game feels easy. Today does not feel quite as easy as yesterday. Hopefully by the Joss tournament this weekend at Comet, it'll feel easier. You playing?

 

[cmsmith9]

Hahahahaha, if only that were remotely true!!! I'm playing alright. I guess, like anybody, when I'm playing well, the game feels easy. Today does not feel quite as easy as yesterday. Hopefully by the Joss tournament this weekend at Comet, it'll feel easier. You playing?

Good luck this weekend...unfortunately I don't play much, working two jobs, everyday. So I am no longer a pool player, just a customer. I sit on the tables, I walk in front of other peoples shots, and put drinks on the felt.....

Christian

 

[BigCat]

I'm certain each class will yield their own statistics but from a player's point of view, this is really difficult to observe. In my opinion, the classes are as follows -

D - Will appear as though they are stumbling through the rack. Their occasional run-outs will either consist of very easy layouts (which they will nearly mess-up), a few lucky shots and/or unintentional position.

C - Greater sense of cue control and much more of a deliberate appearance than a D. They will undoubtedly run out with BIH with 3 or 4 left and will make it look routine but are suspect beyond that.

B - Really the beginning of the run out player. If they make a ball on the break and get position on the 1 ball, they should have a reasonable expectation to get out. Any cluster or unusual position play will diminish their chances significantly. Usually, B players possess unusual strength in either pocketing, strategy or position play. Rarely two of three, never all three. Their creativity is usually limited at this level but you may begin to see glimpses of what's to come.

A - Definitely catagorized as a run out player. They are supposed to capitalize on most mistakes. Greater attention is paid to more subtle details. Expect a consistent and strong break and strength in multiple attributes (pocketing, defense, position play, creativity). Most noticeable among players at this level and above is an aura of confidence.

Open & Above is very similar to what you see described in A only more refined. You will see advanced to expert break, pocketing, defense, position play and creativity. Low level opens might be advanced in all of these catagories while world class professionals might be experts in most or all. All of these players are expected to run out with any routine opportunity. Any run-stopper situation (clusters, blocked position routes) is expected to be handled in such a way to still give the shooter an expectation of winning.


That's how I see it, at least. Within a few shots, I can always tell who is an A player or better just by their gait. It usually takes me a few games to see if they're better than that.

Jude, I agree with your analysis. This is a pretty accurate description and could even apply across geographies (which is sometimes hard to do because what is an A on the west coast isn't often viewed as what an A is on the east coast). Nicely put.

 

[Perk]

I can always tell who is an A player or better just by their gait. It usually takes me a few games to see if they're better than that.

Great post btw.

But what does "gait" mean?