different game= different stroke?

Jimbojim

Jimbojim

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I played some 14.1, bank pool, 9-ball and 8-ball tonight with a friend and for some reason every game went great but 14.1. I study alot about it and practice it regularly but I finally was able to pinpoint a major flaw: I miss shots in 14.1 that I wouldn't miss in 9-ball for example. How many times have I stopped a nice run because I missed the easiest break ball in the world.

I was so depressed I think that at the end if I could make 5 balls in a row I was happy. Missing shots like crazy, always stuck in the clusters...nothing was rolling for me. Then we play a little race to 5 at 9ball and I start with a 2pack right off the bat.

Why is that? Concentration lacking in 14.1? Overthinking about breaking that rack o' balls? Am I too weak to play the game to an enjoyable level ( my high run is 23 but I strive to get to 50)?
 
I think you and I take shots for granted in straight pool, compared to harder shots in 9-ball. Stay down, stay focused. Give every shot 100%.
 
I think this is a very common problem so don't sweat it. I'm going to use the example of a very good 9-ball player playing one-pocket for the 1st few times, which is what I have witnessed the most over the years: Their ball pocketing skills go down significantly when playing 1-pocket. Why? Because that player second-guesses them self while down on the shot, which clutters the mind and detracts from the focus/trust in the same shot they would drill in 9-ball. Whenever you play games you haven't played enough to where you are confident in your choices before you get down to execute it, you will miss balls you normally would not.

Don't worry, it's short lived. The more you play those games that are newer to you (14.1, 1-pocket, etc.), the more you begin to relax and allow yourself to execute the shot at hand. Choose a shot, and shoot it with conviction. Don't let worrying about the consequences get in the way (break shot in 14.1 & is this the right shot, am I going to sell out, etc? in 1-pocket).

The moral: Do all your thinking standing up. Once you get down on the shot, shoot it with conviction. If you find yourself undecided once down, get back up and start over. When it's time to execute, execute!

Just my opinion,

Dave
 
Well, Jim, here's my take on it. I've won so many tournaments in 9-ball that I literally have trophies packed away in my closet. I'm not saying I'm a great player but I'm in the SA class here in Japan, that's between A class and pro, so I feel I play well enough to hold my own. Get me into straight pool though and you'd think I didn't know how to cut a ball.

My personal feelings, from paying attention to my own straight pool games are like this.

1. I don't strike the ball with the same confidence that I do in 9-ball. I find myself "babying" shots rather than stroking them the way I should because I fear over running my position or getting out of line.

2. I constantly find myslef shooting balls with the thought "If I get around here next there's gotta be something to shoot." I should really buckle down and play the balls and positions as exacting as I can.

3. Confusion of what to do is a big one. And that comes in many forms. The 2 biggest being not sure which ball to take and not sure what to do with a certain cluster.

I've just recently moved into the over 50 club with a 54 ball run. It's slowly coming together but it's going to take a while to get where I want to be. I love straight pool though.
MULLY
 
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Jimbojim said:
I played some 14.1, bank pool, 9-ball and 8-ball tonight with a friend and for some reason every game went great but 14.1. I study alot about it and practice it regularly but I finally was able to pinpoint a major flaw: I miss shots in 14.1 that I wouldn't miss in 9-ball for example. How many times have I stopped a nice run because I missed the easiest break ball in the world.

I was so depressed I think that at the end if I could make 5 balls in a row I was happy. Missing shots like crazy, always stuck in the clusters...nothing was rolling for me. Then we play a little race to 5 at 9ball and I start with a 2pack right off the bat.

Why is that? Concentration lacking in 14.1? Overthinking about breaking that rack o' balls? Am I too weak to play the game to an enjoyable level ( my high run is 23 but I strive to get to 50)?
Click to expand...


my opinion...you are planning your route too far ahead... your finding your break ball and working backwards.. and forcing yourself to stick to the plan... in 9 ball there is no option of what ball to hit next.. you have to take the lowest... In 14.1 and many other games require the ability to adjust and adapt to an evolving table...

for example I don't have a ball per ball plan that reaches further than the next few shots... but I have what could be called an outline.. that sort of structures my run into portions of the table to clear.. I identify a break ball and an alternate break ball as soon as possible. and locate key balls to get on each....

but nothing is set in stone until I am down to the last 3 or 4 balls...I try to keep an open mind and take what the balls will give me.. you might get the exact position you wanted for a ball and luck into a line on a trouble ball.. at that point adjust the plan....

Rotation games are very structured there is no decision on the next ball to shoot... this leads to shot making. and achieving difficult position.... straight pool is the opposite its about avoiding the need for difficult shots...its about minimal cue ball movement. the simplest easiest route to the goal...but you have to be able to adapt to difficulties and opportunity's... and recognize which is which.

you cannot walk into a straight pool game with a 9 ball mindset and expect to do well.. and the opposite is also true....

you have to have the right mindset and shot set for the game you are playing ... one size does not fit all...
 
softshot said:
my opinion...you are planning your route too far ahead... your finding your break ball and working backwards.. and forcing yourself to stick to the plan... in 9 ball there is no option of what ball to hit next.. you have to take the lowest... In 14.1 and many other games require the ability to adjust and adapt to an evolving table...

for example I don't have a ball per ball plan that reaches further than the next few shots... but I have what could be called an outline.. that sort of structures my run into portions of the table to clear.. I identify a break ball and an alternate break ball as soon as possible. and locate key balls to get on each....

but nothing is set in stone until I am down to the last 3 or 4 balls...I try to keep an open mind and take what the balls will give me.. you might get the exact position you wanted for a ball and luck into a line on a trouble ball.. at that point adjust the plan....

Rotation games are very structured there is no decision on the next ball to shoot... this leads to shot making. and achieving difficult position.... straight pool is the opposite its about avoiding the need for difficult shots...its about minimal cue ball movement. the simplest easiest route to the goal...but you have to be able to adapt to difficulties and opportunity's... and recognize which is which.

you cannot walk into a straight pool game with a 9 ball mindset and expect to do well.. and the opposite is also true....

you have to have the right mindset and shot set for the game you are playing ... one size does not fit all...
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree with you more if I tried.
MULLY
 
I was once in your shoes....I was a serious 9ball junky, and when I found a teacher he MADE me shoot 14.1 exclusively because he could see thats what my game needed. For the first few months I would miss shots my Mom would make!:D Finally my mentor explained my problem was rhythem. I'm a naturally "Earl" speed player. 14.1 made me slow down to figure out my patterns which screwed up my normal pace causing me to shoot awful. After a year or so, I was comfortable and just worked the patterns and a new slower pace naturally became part of my game.

Don't get me wrong, I almost shoot like machine gun Lou, but I try to slow down. ;)

1pocket didn't bother me that way when I started playing? It may sound silly, but 1 pocket is the easiest game for me to play, then rotation games, then 14.1....not sure why?
 
Do you shorten your bridge for Straight pool? Some of the nine ball players may pooh-pooh this but IIRC, most of the Straight pool greats, Mosconi for example, played that game with a much shorter bridge than do most of the great nine ball players. Is your hand on the butt in the same place? The length of your bridge and placement of your butt hand might need to be different. I caught my self in Straight pool mode, with a shorter bridge and grip, when playing nine ball not long ago. I had to consciously switch to a longer bridge and move my hand further back on the butt. Longer shots most of the time in nine ball don't occur as often in Straight pool and hand placement is different, I think.
 
strokes

All excellent replies in this thread. For me, Pushout pinpoints my problem when switching between rotation and other games. Other games I rarely have to move the cue ball around as much and tend to take closer shots even if the angle is worse. Mostly from copying other's play, I want to move the cue ball around more playing nine and ten ball. The stroke opens up but then I play other games poorly right after playing rotation until I deliberately change styles a little. Eight ball creates none of these problems because although I may move around the table most of the time it is using bridge balls.

A long(timewise) uptable one pocket game will throw my shotmaking off a little too.

Hu



Pushout said:
Do you shorten your bridge for Straight pool? Some of the nine ball players may pooh-pooh this but IIRC, most of the Straight pool greats, Mosconi for example, played that game with a much shorter bridge than do most of the great nine ball players. Is your hand on the butt in the same place? The length of your bridge and placement of your butt hand might need to be different. I caught my self in Straight pool mode, with a shorter bridge and grip, when playing nine ball not long ago. I had to consciously switch to a longer bridge and move my hand further back on the butt. Longer shots most of the time in nine ball don't occur as often in Straight pool and hand placement is different, I think.
Click to expand...
 
Jimbojim said:
Why is that? Concentration lacking in 14.1? Overthinking about breaking that rack o' balls? Am I too weak to play the game to an enjoyable level ( my high run is 23 but I strive to get to 50)?
Click to expand...

I think "overthinking" has a lot to do with it; in 9-ball there's not usually much thinking going on, especially if you're an experienced player. Things pretty much run on auto-pilot, which is very conducive to maintaining good focus and high levels of performance.

In 14.1, you're thinking about a lot of different things, playing position on multiple balls, often thinking 5, 7, or more shots ahead to determine patterns, defining very small positional targets, avoiding bumping balls here, being sure to bump balls there, etc. If you are less experienced at 14.1, it's likely that your brain finds all these thought patterns very distracting, and that the game itself prevents you from achieving a good level of focus on your execution. I think the solution is to play more 14.1 until you train yourself to perform well under those mental conditions.

-Andrew
 
it all makes sense, I probably have a lot on my mind about the game while I'm playing it and/or expecting perfect position all the time which could shatter someone's confidence if they don't get it right all the time. In 9 ball you usually have a bigger area for position than in 14.1 and a lot less traffic...shots are more difficult for position sometimes but I'm more used to it cuz I play it far more often.
 
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