Dificult situation concerning double elim. brackets

[TX Poolnut]

Just when I thought I had it all figured out...

I was running an 8-ball tourney two weeks ago and something interesting happened that I thought some of the folks here may be able to help me with. The rules were to be BCA for the tournament.

After randomly drawing positions in the brackets for all the players, I noticed that two players that had not shown up yet had been matched up in the brackets. Since both had prepaid and their entry fees were officially part of the prize fund, I went ahead and put them both on the clock. Well, 15 min later, neither showed up.

Now, here's the problem. Almost immediately after the 15 clock had run out, as fate would have it, one of the guys comes waltzing through the doors. He insisted that HE be the one that advanced and the other player should be sent to the one loss side. Nothing in the rules dictates what a tourney director should do in this situation. Please help. There are quite a few knowledgeable folks on here and I'd really love to hear what YOU would have done.

In our situation, I flipped a coin and he was sent to the one loss side. Of course he almost came unglued, but that was the fairest thing I could think of. Help me fellow poolnuts.

 

[Barbara]

Just when I thought I had it all figured out...

I was running an 8-ball tourney two weeks ago and something interesting happened that I thought some of the folks here may be able to help me with. The rules were to be BCA for the tournament.

After randomly drawing positions in the brackets for all the players, I noticed that two players that had not shown up yet had been matched up in the brackets. Since both had prepaid and their entry fees were officially part of the prize fund, I went ahead and put them both on the clock. Well, 15 min later, neither showed up.

Now, here's the problem. Almost immediately after the 15 clock had run out, as fate would have it, one of the guys comes waltzing through the doors. He insisted that HE be the one that advanced and the other player should be sent to the one loss side. Nothing in the rules dictates what a tourney director should do in this situation. Please help. There are quite a few knowledgeable folks on here and I'd really love to hear what YOU would have done.

In our situation, I flipped a coin and he was sent to the one loss side. Of course he almost came unglued, but that was the fairest thing I could think of. Help me fellow poolnuts.

If neither player showed after the 15 minutes it's a forfeit, plain and simple.

Barbara

 

[Snapshot9]

My thoughts...

How big was the tournament?
How about fairness to the players that were there on time?
1) Both players forfeit ... strict rules policy
2) If some latitude for the tournament, then I would
advance the one that showed up and forfeited the no-show.
Possesion is 9/10's of the law, and since the one guy showed
up, then he possesses the match, and therefore the win.
But, the problem with this is that other players in the tournament
might object, especially if the late player was one favored to
win the tournament.

 

[TX Poolnut]

If neither player showed after the 15 minutes it's a forfeit, plain and simple.

Barbara

Barbara, thank you for your reply. I don't think it is that simple though. Yes, it is a forfeit but against whom? Neither player showed up but since we were playing double elimination someone has to advance thru to the winners side and someone has to go to the one loss side. Neither player was onhand before the clock expired. So how do I choose which player advances and which move to the loser's side of the bracket. They can't both go to the same side. Am I missing something? Ya'll need to enlighten me.

 

[zeeder]

Barbara, thank you for your reply. I don't think it is that simple though. Yes, it is a forfeit but against whom? Neither player showed up but since we were playing double elimination someone has to advance thru to the winners side and someone has to go to the one loss side. Neither player was onhand before the clock expired. So how do I choose which player advances and which move to the loser's side of the bracket. They can't both go to the same side. Am I missing something? Ya'll need to enlighten me.

I think the way you did it, flipping a coin, is tha fairest way to handle it. Whether he showed up eventually or not makes no difference since the clock had run out!

 

[TX Poolnut]

How big was the tournament?
How about fairness to the players that were there on time?
1) Both players forfeit ... strict rules policy
2) If some latitude for the tournament, then I would
advance the one that showed up and forfeited the no-show.
Possesion is 9/10's of the law, and since the one guy showed
up, then he possesses the match, and therefore the win.
But, the problem with this is that other players in the tournament
might object, especially if the late player was one favored to
win the tournament.

It was a full bracket of 32. Both players forfeit but how do I put one in the winners column over another? The only thing I could think of was to flip a coin and knock both of them in the head for putting me in this position. lol The 9/10 of the law rule is interesting though.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Now, here's the problem. Almost immediately after the 15 clock had run out, as fate would have it, one of the guys comes waltzing through the doors. He insisted that HE be the one that advanced and the other player should be sent to the one loss side. Nothing in the rules dictates what a tourney director should do in this situation. Please help. There are quite a few knowledgeable folks on here and I'd really love to hear what YOU would have done.

In our situation, I flipped a coin and he was sent to the one loss side. Of course he almost came unglued, but that was the fairest thing I could think of. Help me fellow poolnuts.

What if the other one had showed up? Could they both go to the one loss side? It seems odd that the no show and late arrival, drew each other. I have never heard of two players forfeiting the same match. If the other one had shown up also, they would have had to play I guess. Since one didn't then, I think in your case the guy that did show up, should have won the match by forfeit.

I was in a tournament where two guys both showed up after the draw. They were penciled in at the bottom, to play one another. The winner got byes all the way to the hot seat and the other got byes all the way to the left of the chart. I beat the one in the losers side, then had to beat the other twice to win. I didn't pull it off and took second. I was a little... OK make that a good bit upset about the way the situation was handled. I think late arrivals should not be added after the draw.

Tracy

 

[sjm]

I think the way you did it, flipping a coin, is tha fairest way to handle it. Whether he showed up eventually or not makes no difference since the clock had run out!

I completely agree.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

I have very little sympathy and or respect for any pool player that shows up late for a tournament. 99% of the players are there on time and ready.
Why on earth do they expect to be treated better than those players that showed up on time.

When both players forfieted, neither player had any claim for wining that match.

In the tournaments I run, that player would only have two choices. Play on the one loss side, or not play at all.

Just when I thought I had it all figured out...

I was running an 8-ball tourney two weeks ago and something interesting happened that I thought some of the folks here may be able to help me with. The rules were to be BCA for the tournament.

After randomly drawing positions in the brackets for all the players, I noticed that two players that had not shown up yet had been matched up in the brackets. Since both had prepaid and their entry fees were officially part of the prize fund, I went ahead and put them both on the clock. Well, 15 min later, neither showed up.

Now, here's the problem. Almost immediately after the 15 clock had run out, as fate would have it, one of the guys comes waltzing through the doors. He insisted that HE be the one that advanced and the other player should be sent to the one loss side. Nothing in the rules dictates what a tourney director should do in this situation. Please help. There are quite a few knowledgeable folks on here and I'd really love to hear what YOU would have done.

In our situation, I flipped a coin and he was sent to the one loss side. Of course he almost came unglued, but that was the fairest thing I could think of. Help me fellow poolnuts.

 

[woody_968]

I would have advanced the one that showed up instead of flipping a coin. Yes its a bad deal that he gets to stay on the winners side even though he was late, but flipping a coin and sending the one guy that did show up to the loser side doesnt make it better. Also by sending the guy that showed up to the loser side you are giving a second round bye on the winners side, personally I would rather see the winners side have to play to keep advancing.

Its a bad deal either way you look at it.

 

[Snapshot9]

Were they ...

Another question is: Were both players prepaid for the tournament?
If they weren't, then neither should have been in the draw to begin
with. If they both were prepaid, then I think my 9/10's of the law
rule should apply. Think of it this, why would anyone be a winner
of a match without showing up? ever .... To win, yoiu have to
show up first. You can lose by not showing up, but you should not
win by not showing up ... The one guy that showed up late was
still there to compete, and should be awarded the match.

Now, the calcutta for my 32 player 8 ball tourney starts in an hour,
so I have to grab a shower real quick .... lol

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Why do you use a 15 minute clock? If there is a reason for using it--then that is the answer? Just like the Chinaman said "No tickie, no laundry".

 

[Barbara]

Barbara, thank you for your reply. I don't think it is that simple though. Yes, it is a forfeit but against whom? Neither player showed up but since we were playing double elimination someone has to advance thru to the winners side and someone has to go to the one loss side. Neither player was onhand before the clock expired. So how do I choose which player advances and which move to the loser's side of the bracket. They can't both go to the same side. Am I missing something? Ya'll need to enlighten me.

It's a forfeit for both of them. Neither one of them advances. And the player that would have had to play the winner of the forfeited match gets advanced with another forfeit.

Barbara

 

[Barbara]

I have very little sympathy and or respect for any pool player that shows up late for a tournament. 99% of the players are there on time and ready.
Why on earth do they expect to be treated better than those players that showed up on time.

When both players forfieted, neither player had any claim for wining that match.

In the tournaments I run, that player would only have two choices. Play on the one loss side, or not play at all.

Ditto with the sympathy. If the player just missed the 15minute grace period I will ask their opponent if they still want the forfeit or will play. I tell them that they are under no pressure to play the match. I always want them to take the forfeit because now that bracket is 15 minutes behind.

Barbara

 

[Captain]

Hi, Barb. I agree with you. I don't see why either player should advance in either bracket. To say that the match belongs to the guy who showed up late doesn't make sense to me; the match was over and done with at forfeit time, and that guy didn't win it. To say that the guy who showed up late deserves to go into the loser's bracket wouldn't make sense to me; one earns one's chance in the loser's bracket by showing up on time, playing, and losing a match. If this is something that's at the TD's discretion, and I'm the TD, they're both gone!

AS

 

[Rickw]

I agree with Barbara and Captain. If you have a hard and fast rule that if someone does not show up within 15 minutes of the start of the tournament that it's a forfiet and neither player should have been allowed to play. However, many tournaments that I have played in allow players to call in to let the TD know they're running late and sometimes they hold up for them. I don't know how long they'll do that but I've seen them wait quite a while. Personally, if I'm late and they started the tournament already then I feel it's my problem not the TD's. I would never bitch about it if the TD said, "Sorry, you're too late." As a matter of fact, Tom from Cincy told me that once and I was fine with it wasn't I Tom? Of course, on the other hand, if Tom had allowed me to play in spite of being late, I would have gladly played.

 

[woody_968]

It's a forfeit for both of them. Neither one of them advances. And the player that would have had to play the winner of the forfeited match gets advanced with another forfeit.

Barbara

If neither one advances how do you put them both on the losers side?

 

[zeeder]

If neither one advances how do you put them both on the losers side?

She's saying to kick them both out of the touney. Then there would be three additional byes (1 winner bracket and 2 loser bracket).

 

[Barbara]

If neither one advances how do you put them both on the losers side?

You just advance a BYE on the right side of the chart as well as one on the left side of the chart.

Barbara

 

[woody_968]

You just advance a BYE on the right side of the chart as well as one on the left side of the chart.

Barbara

If one of the players would have been there would you have simply put the other player on the loser side or kicked him out of the tourney? Most tournaments I know of would have just put the one player that didnt show up on the losers side. If that is the case I cant justify kicking both players totally out of the tournament.

Understand Im not trying to support someone for not showing up on time, just trying to get a good solid answer on how it should have been handled and why.