Well, I sort of already played tennis or at least knew one card from the other. A major factor is that it helped me get my mind out of the way.
Do you have a "learning style"? Maybe not
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I followed another psychologist, Brent Rushall, who had an interest in pitching.Hi Bob,
the first time i noticed Ken Ravizza because of a work mate- He was a Baseball Player and had his book- so i just ran through it and already back then i was excited how he "attacks" mental problems- And and especially his talking/writing style.
Later i found some smaller videos of him on youtube. The way he is seeing to "be in the moment"- to be in the present- and how to response to outer circumstances- that was, when he caught me. From then i just tried to read as much as possible from him. or watched videos available from him. Finally was able to get access to many of his articles, work sheets etc.
To give a specific answer, how actions did change for me- well that s tough. What is fact: I learnt to "manage the moment" much better- to stay in the present. And furthermore the art of communication while im teaching changed a lot.
Hope I was able to give you a satisfying answer Bob- if not- just holler at me and i ll try to be maybe more specific
take care Bob.
I posted his site previously but will add it now.
https://coachsci.sdsu.edu/
I found it interesting that during a YouTube discussion with Ken Ravizza, a colleague, talked about coping from the other end of the player context, the hitter.
He talked about dealing with what your opponent is trying to do to you, about an evolving context.
Priorities change as the context morphs.
This mirrors so many sports contexts.
Thanks to your info I’m watching a youtube video on the subject.
The big thing is about being in the moment, focusing on the process, but needing to get results as well.
Needing in game adjustments that are relevant and keep focused regardless of the results is central to the whole concept.
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Is this guidance on teaching the mental game to others? Sounds interesting. My working assumption has always been that you're likely to do more harm than good, if you don't know what you're doing.
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I think this is such an interesting point.
I have experienced exactly this myself, where I've finished a book, felt good about it, but not done anything differently.
On the other hand, both Ratta and Bob's descriptions of what they do differently are slightly intangible (staying in the moment, getting one's thoughts out of the way). These things may represent profound differences in what our brains are doing when we're playing, but they don't lend themselves to describing specific actions, and even a before/after comparison of our psychology might not be completely clear-cut, if 'before', we sometimes did the right thing by chance anyway.
It's also easy to lose grip of (or forget to adopt) attitude adjustments of this kind. So if I read a book that tells me to be in the moment, and I then forget and do exactly what I used to do, is it my fault or the book's? (Mostly mine, but it's easily done when the change is somewhat intangible. And some books present a nice picture of being in the moment, but don't give you any tools to help actually achieve this, beyond an image of what the ideal is.)
Yet another layer, if I struggled with, say, 45 degree cuts, and someone had me practice them until I became proficient, I might not be able to explain what I was doing differently, except that I'd practiced and was now better at the shot. It's a very flawed analogy, but the basic point is that in some cases, we might not be able to pinpoint what specifically we've gained from something, even when the benefit is very real.
True. I've done a lot of experimenting over the years and even though I may eventually throw something out, when first try it, it gives me interesting results. I believe that's because doing something new makes you acutely aware of your fundamentals and sometimes you wind up fixing something by accident that you didn't even know needed fixing.
I also think that we don't always know what the problem is when something is off in our games. Sometimes we do, but often enough we think it's one thing, but really the root lies somewhere else.
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I remember reading, I think in a George Fels book, what seemed like a late addition to the text along the lines of "recently I've been focusing on bringing the cue back in an exactly straight line, with excellent results. If you bring the cue straight back, what else can it do but go straight fowards?"
I remember thinking, 'yeah, give that one a couple of month though...'
On the other hand, there's the old shark move of asking someone about how they grip their cue, with the expected result that they can barely make a ball while thinking about it...
If both are valid, I wonder what the different processes are, to give such different results. To use one of Nideffer's models (who was mentioned a page or two back), the 'new technique' might draw your external focus, whereas the shark move might stir up internal conscious uncertainty. But who knows?!
My personal experience, and that with others, revealed that what a player needs, depends on them and their level of development.
The George Fels straight back key was right for him at that moment and your comment about it being time sensitive echos that idea.
Constantly working on your physical game means discarding or modifying either what you do or the order and timing of actions.
The same is true of your mental game.
Most sports psychology revolves around regulating arousal levels and coping skills.
One of those skills is letting go of results so you can focus fully on the current shot.
The goal of the mental game goes beyond into your best performances acting as a model for how your best you can emerge.
It’s about asking questions around the physical cues that you remember and your inner mindset at the time.
Since each shot is unique, common denominators between peak periods of execution become the focus of the search.
I’ve tried to address how a player might go about their personal search by identifying what kinds of sensory experience and in what form, makes up your best you.
Books will only have relevance for a specific audience at a particular time.
Going back at a later date to the same material often results in a different take on the material.
Don’t give up and don’t just dismiss information because it wasn’t relevant to you at the time.
Sharing info here won’t resonate with a lot of the commenters but the readers who choose not to comment can sometimes find something that fits in their wheelhouse at the time.
For more on the differences that make a difference another thread comes to mind.
https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/developing-expertise-in-pool.496802/
https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/developing-expertise-in-pool.496802/
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Thank you, that's really insightful.
I've done similar myself, in figuring out what works for me. But I was focused on my personal performance and my own common denominators, and hadn't thought about the process I used to find what worked for me. Clearly that's a big deal, abstracting the general approach for someone else to use for their personal game.
I suppose that other-player-centric approach is similar to the initial 'personal learning styles (for different parts of the brain)' discussion. And is presumably the essence of helping someone else figure out the zone.
It's a wonderful topic. As I mentioned, I've never tried to teach zone to others because I expect it'd do more harm than good (and a lot of the 'professional' instructional materials I've read fall into this trap, IMHO). And I'm nothing special as a player, so have no right to coach others. But it is a wonderful topic.
Maybe this will give you a little more of the idea of the need to meld the mental and physical.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Joan-Vickers/publication/235328255_Decision_training_An_innovative_approach_to_coaching/links/00b7d513ff0c58316e000000/Decision-training-An-innovative-approach-to-coaching.pdf?_sg[0]=oP28_Jm4YN6XrIibBbl_c3jxexuQ0-YdFnbKgIux4YMaun7VY8dtNZHuMcaoMTz7LR5lm456wNmNjadfGbcz3w.kdoM81uA19Uv9H7BKVmPOAwYbqBSfxaZwCfa66617tE3LmhGylfxTidZ7MJdH96qI_No6y1bt8PBWjgRqWkkOA&_sg[1]=DmXbRAoZkYLX60xh35ABh8Z1LGO6ZeGc6DR_fiYLg6jzzLDyVrfxccPlCaMktW8pAEQt6u6XbkmO3-zsaM-D4LnqfBPXVcPYDgCoSyXNJLth.kdoM81uA19Uv9H7BKVmPOAwYbqBSfxaZwCfa66617tE3LmhGylfxTidZ7MJdH96qI_No6y1bt8PBWjgRqWkkOA&_iepl=
For years coaches have used drills for skills they hope get transferred into game situations.
Instead of “taking practice into the game“ I believe in “taking the game into practice.”
Players use the ball up the center and back to test straight cueing.
Taking the game into the practice asks “how often you have a straight cueing shot like a straight in, without other balls around?”
Set up a straight in and once you make two or three, add a ball near the cue ball and shoot again.
Or, add one just a bit in front and off to the side of the ob.
Add more balls, none in the ball path but competing with your focus on the ball to ball path.
Now add draw and follow challenges to the extra balls.
Use video examples and feedback as much as possible, as tools.
Add strategy and tactics the same way.
A recent Sharivari video is an example.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Joan-Vickers/publication/235328255_Decision_training_An_innovative_approach_to_coaching/links/00b7d513ff0c58316e000000/Decision-training-An-innovative-approach-to-coaching.pdf?_sg[0]=oP28_Jm4YN6XrIibBbl_c3jxexuQ0-YdFnbKgIux4YMaun7VY8dtNZHuMcaoMTz7LR5lm456wNmNjadfGbcz3w.kdoM81uA19Uv9H7BKVmPOAwYbqBSfxaZwCfa66617tE3LmhGylfxTidZ7MJdH96qI_No6y1bt8PBWjgRqWkkOA&_sg[1]=DmXbRAoZkYLX60xh35ABh8Z1LGO6ZeGc6DR_fiYLg6jzzLDyVrfxccPlCaMktW8pAEQt6u6XbkmO3-zsaM-D4LnqfBPXVcPYDgCoSyXNJLth.kdoM81uA19Uv9H7BKVmPOAwYbqBSfxaZwCfa66617tE3LmhGylfxTidZ7MJdH96qI_No6y1bt8PBWjgRqWkkOA&_iepl=
For years coaches have used drills for skills they hope get transferred into game situations.
Instead of “taking practice into the game“ I believe in “taking the game into practice.”
Players use the ball up the center and back to test straight cueing.
Taking the game into the practice asks “how often you have a straight cueing shot like a straight in, without other balls around?”
Set up a straight in and once you make two or three, add a ball near the cue ball and shoot again.
Or, add one just a bit in front and off to the side of the ob.
Add more balls, none in the ball path but competing with your focus on the ball to ball path.
Now add draw and follow challenges to the extra balls.
Use video examples and feedback as much as possible, as tools.
Add strategy and tactics the same way.
A recent Sharivari video is an example.
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I remember one time when I was playing Ewa in a WPBA 9 Ball match, back when she was married to Jimmy Mataya. We were all friendly towards each other and Jimmy was always nice to me. I happened to catch a stroke that match and was running rack after rack when Ewa did the right thing and took a break. I happened to walk past Jimmy who complimented me on my playing. I think he meant it sincerely, but it stuck in my head and when we came back from the break I was thinking that, hey, yeah, I am playing really well, aren't I?
Then suddenly I went completely conscious of everything I was doing and wound up losing the match. After that I became very cautious about speaking to people during breaks.
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This strikes a chord with me.
In order to reduce distractions my precompetition routine includes a no conversation rule.
Within reason, the idea was to not initiate conversation or act to encourage someone who did.
Be aloof, not rude.
I feel the same about eating while playing.
Keeping outward focus on the table and ongoing play to keep positive, “in the moment” engagement, is the goal.
Play with big ball and bigger pockets perception to occupy the mind.
Seeing patterns is often easier when back from the table.
Seeing when and where to shift into a strategy/tactics mode is the same.
In the heat of battle shifting from offense to defense can be hard.
The voice of experience, and it’s lesson, is heard loud and clear,
Thanks Fran
One acronym I like from him is W.I.N.
What‘s
Important
Now?
Questions initiate answer mode in people.
This is a present tense question, keeping you in the present.
I seems like a great key as an at the table mindset trigger.
I agree, and about the food too. Anything can become a distraction. The time I finished 2nd in Atlantic City my boyfriend/coach kept me away from everyone. He watched every match I played and when each match was over, he grabbed my cues and case and quickly ushered me out of the arena and into the elevator. When we got to the TV matches I wanted to watch the men play, but he suggested that I stay in the hotel room and relax and he would call me when it was my turn to play. After that tournament, I really appreciated how much it means to have someone looking out for you at tournaments. As he used to say, "Someone in your corner."
In other sports where there is more money involved, the athletes have a team of people in their corner. As for most of us pool players, if we have one person in our corner at a tournament, it's a good day.
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In terms of distractions, I think sometimes simply playing much better than normal can be sufficient distraction itself - at least until you get used to how to handle it.
This is also an area where a little bit of sports psychology knowledge can be harmful, if you realize you're playing well, then (before you've finished) go down the rabbit hole of what you're doing, why it's happening...
But enough about me...
I like the question / 'answer mode' thing very much!
This is also an area where a little bit of sports psychology knowledge can be harmful, if you realize you're playing well, then (before you've finished) go down the rabbit hole of what you're doing, why it's happening...
But enough about me...
I like the question / 'answer mode' thing very much!
That's good. I like that a lot.
Sports psychologist Jim Loehr used to say "No surprises." Things that surprise you during competition will distract you. When I took a mental toughness training course with him, he taught us to do pre-match visualizations of things that could possibly happen to us during a match, and then how we would respond to them --- All the 'what if's' we could think of. It really helped a lot.
that is a bit above my paygrade straightline, but yes the older I get the less this whirld' makes sense, more cowards abound than I remember there being - when I was a young shaver. As Lou stated "it is what it is" no sand on the ground here in MO but I can be a bit harsh at times - inner game of honesty is relevant to self 1 and self two - or at least that is how I feel.Kinda harsh but after the 526 thread, sounds about right.
Reminds me of the adage we've all heard: An expert is one who learns more and more about less and less until he knows everything there is about nothing at all. Higher (hire) learning is most definitely into the details...
Keep prodding. Causes thinking or something,
This is where advice like the boy scouts motto of “be prepared”, to the “no surprises” key, to your point of how just performing at your best, can be a surprise, fit.In terms of distractions, I think sometimes simply playing much better than normal can be sufficient distraction itself - at least until you get used to how to handle it.
This is also an area where a little bit of sports psychology knowledge can be harmful, if you realize you're playing well, then (before you've finished) go down the rabbit hole of what you're doing, why it's happening...
But enough about me...
I like the question / 'answer mode' thing very much!
The martial arts meditative practice of “letting go“ has that coping message too, meaning both the judgmental evaluation states of good and bad.
As Timothy Gallwey pointed out it’s just data, shutting down evaluation to just the feedback level, “left an inch, right an inch“
The mind is a comparison machine, but we get to decide what to compare, and reference.
Then we decide.
The decisions need to be in the “now”, as Dorfmans mantra tells us.
Walking away and resetting, or just getting up, are skills that separate even the best.
Remembering that giving fail grades doesn’t help and searching for answers is the path forward, is about finding the right questions.
Answers don’t matter if you ask the wrong questions.