Do You Like Layouts to Analyze?

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CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As someone who enjoys puzzles and problems to solve, I would really enjoy posts of table layouts here using the cuetable.com table. I've seen a few old "what would you do here" posts, but would any of you want to make it a regular thing?

Anyone with straight pool matches on video could even post actual layouts that were run in a specific manner, witholding the pro's decisions, and even the pro's name, for a few days.

I would think the most useful posts would be end of rack layouts. Maybe no more than 8 open balls left, with the challenge being to get to a break ball the simplest, safest, way...maximizing insurance situations and minimizing cueball movement.

Someone mentioned Rorschach tests in a recent post on the main forum. I don't recall the subject, but I once played a board game called "Think Blot" that really hit home for me the many different ways people see things. It was astounding how different we can be.

I think straight pool is similar in that it's played from our own very unique perspectives.

Anyone in? If so:
To start, here's a layout from one of my Accustats matches between two pros. The balls are numbered differently, but I placed them very carefully. I'll hold off revealing the sequence chosen by the player in the video.

CueTable Help



Jeff
 
I like the layout analysis, too. I think you can learn things this way. The only problem I have with these Wei tables is that it is hard to really see the angles unless you are at the table. For instance, in my example below of what I would do, the whole layout depends on the two ball. Is it a reasonable cut shot into the side pocket? If not, then my layout is no good. The only other tricky shot in my layout is actually getting from the 8 to the 7. Depending on the angle, you might have to go into the side rail first, but otherwise you should be OK as long as you don't leave the cue ball too close to the side rail. If you get straight on the 7, or on the wrong side you can still get on the 2 easily. The rest of the shots are ducks and can be made in more than one sequence depending on exactly how the cue ball rolls. There are 3 pages to my layout.

CueTable Help

 
bluepepper said:
As someone who enjoys puzzles and problems to solve, I would really enjoy posts of table layouts here using the cuetable.com table. I've seen a few old "what would you do here" posts, but would any of you want to make it a regular thing?

Anyone with straight pool matches on video could even post actual layouts that were run in a specific manner, witholding the pro's decisions, and even the pro's name, for a few days.

I would think the most useful posts would be end of rack layouts. Maybe no more than 8 open balls left, with the challenge being to get to a break ball the simplest, safest, way...maximizing insurance situations and minimizing cueball movement.

Someone mentioned Rorschach tests in a recent post on the main forum. I don't recall the subject, but I once played a board game called "Think Blot" that really hit home for me the many different ways people see things. It was astounding how different we can be.

I think straight pool is similar in that it's played from our own very unique perspectives.

Anyone in? If so:
To start, here's a layout from one of my Accustats matches between two pros. The balls are numbered differently, but I placed them very carefully. I'll hold off revealing the sequence chosen by the player in the video.

CueTable Help



Jeff
Click to expand...

I'll take a stab.

8, then the 7 in the same pocket.
3, 4, 2,1,5.

Of course, I'd probably screw it up somewhere.
 
Dan White said:
I like the layout analysis, too. I think you can learn things this way. The only problem I have with these Wei tables is that it is hard to really see the angles unless you are at the table. For instance, in my example below of what I would do, the whole layout depends on the two ball. Is it a reasonable cut shot into the side pocket? If not, then my layout is no good. The only other tricky shot in my layout is actually getting from the 8 to the 7. Depending on the angle, you might have to go into the side rail first, but otherwise you should be OK as long as you don't leave the cue ball too close to the side rail. If you get straight on the 7, or on the wrong side you can still get on the 2 easily. The rest of the shots are ducks and can be made in more than one sequence depending on exactly how the cue ball rolls. There are 3 pages to my layout.
Click to expand...


Hi Dan. I understand the problem of seeing the exact angles on the screen. One thing I did make sure of was to carefully place the balls the way they were in the actual match. The 2-ball appeared to be one of those shots that can go in the side, but only with "die-in-the-hole" speed. So not as easy as it may look. If it were an easy shot, I like your layout.
Thanks,
Jeff
 
dmgwalsh said:
I'll take a stab.

8, then the 7 in the same pocket.
3, 4, 2,1,5.

Of course, I'd probably screw it up somewhere.
Click to expand...

It just so happens that the player screwed his (hers?) up somewhere, but still ran them fairly easily. I think this is a good thing, because it shows that we need insurance at most turns, even if you're a top player. Just to clarify, can you post which pockets the balls you called are going in?
Thanks,
Jeff
 
bluepepper said:
It just so happens that the player screwed his (hers?) up somewhere, but still ran them fairly easily. I think this is a good thing, because it shows that we need insurance at most turns, even if you're a top player. Just to clarify, can you post which pockets the balls you called are going in?
Thanks,
Jeff
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm not too good at the wei table.

8 in bottom left, cue ball one rail out and then 7 in bottom left.

Then 3 and 4 also in bottom left. Should be able to see the 2 in the side, the one straight in, bounce off a little for the 5 in the bottom left to get on the 6.
 
I'm going to disagree with the analyses done so far and give my own. Feel free to disagree!

This is actually a very tricky layout, and imo it needs to be given the utmost respect. It looks very open, but there's a few major reasons why it's not.

The major trouble ball is obviously the 7, and it looks easy enough to get on it from the 8. However, when you really analyze the position, you'll note that your positional zone on the 7 is VERY small. I disagree with where you wanted to be on the 7, Dan, because the only ball you can play next would be the 2 in the side, and you almost certainly won't be able to hold that shot for the 1 in the corner. In this layout, playing the 2 without being able to get on the 1 next is a disaster.

So imo the only place to be on the 7 is just to the right of where Dan has his cueball (when I say "right" I mean, as viewed on the screen - sorry, at work and can't be posting cuetables!). This will give you an angle to go two rails with top right and around to the correct side of the 3,4,5,6.

Unfortunately this is too exact for me. Note that if you end up with any other angle on this 7 ball, you are in a great deal of trouble. This is what I mean by giving this layout the respect it deserves.

So, in my mind, you have two choices. Play the 8 to the 7, or start with the 3. It looks like you have a good angle on the 3 in the corner to draw back and maybe play the 4 in the same pocket you just played the 3. (I'd accept a very small amount of risk on these shots to play a more natural sequence.)

If you don't get perfect on the 4, then you'll still be in a better spot to play the 8 to the 7 or even the 7 to the 8 (depending on where you get). Plus, not having the 3 on the table anymore actually gives you a little more margin of error for getting on the 7 (you may be able to just go one rail with the 7 and still avoid hitting anything). Finally, you could play something like the 3-8-4-7 and be in really good shape.

I think the key to this layout is figuring something better for the 7 ball than what is obvious. Of course, this whole analysis goes out the window if I get down to shoot the 3 and I feel I'm taking too much risk. Tough to see on the Wei.

- Steve
 
Also, difficult to tell on the WEI, but if you can start with the 8 and play the 7 next in the same pocket as the 8, then that's the way to go for sure, just as DMG suggests. Then you come two rails out to the good side of everything.

I just can't tell for sure that that shot is reasonable.

- Steve
 
I like playing position for the seven parallel to the long rail. Then go off the back rail and then to the opposite side. From there I play the two either in the side or the top corner whichever lays best. From there, the player has a reasonable chance of clearance and a breakball.

_Rick
 
I did carefully work out the exact wei sequence that the pro used. Let me know what you think I should do about posting it and when. What I could do is send it to whoever wants it by PM as long as they promise not to post a spoiler. You can PM me if you want it. For some reason I was only able to create a URL link to the sequence, not HTML. But I have it nonetheless.
I don't suggest that the pro who played out this pattern did it in the best way possible, either. You guys are seeing the table in some unique ways.

Jeff
 
I think the angle on the 8 is flat enough that you can get on the 7 in the other corner easily enough. I would try to get on the high side of the 7 though so I can follow 2 rails around the 3 and then I have a lot more options depending on if I go long or short off the 7. If I go too high, then I would come off the 7 and go 4 rails around the table to get around to the same region.

CueTable Help

 
Just a quick note. Dan moved the 2-ball slightly in his post to make a point about the difficulty of seeing the wei table accurately, and asking if it was a makeable shot in the side. So refer to my original post for the actual position of the 2-ball. It is makeable, but a difficult shot, needing to be shot at the proper speed for it to die at the front of the pocket.

Jeff
 
bluepepper said:
Just a quick note. Dan moved the 2-ball slightly in his post to make a point about the difficulty of seeing the wei table accurately, and asking if it was a makeable shot in the side. So refer to my original post for the actual position of the 2-ball. It is makeable, but a difficult shot, needing to be shot at the proper speed for it to die at the front of the pocket.

Jeff
Click to expand...

If the 2 ball is too tough to make in the side, I would still go 8, 7 in the same bottom left pocket and then try to get on the 2 all the way down to be followed by the 1, 3,4 (or 4,3) 5 and 6.

If I don't get on the 2 off the 7, I'd still have the 3,4 and even the 5 in a pinch to get better on the 2.
 
bluepepper said:
Just a quick note. Dan moved the 2-ball slightly in his post to make a point about the difficulty of seeing the wei table accurately, and asking if it was a makeable shot in the side.
Jeff
Click to expand...

I replied to this today, but the post disappeared! Sorry about the 2 ball moving. Sometimes when I double click to make a line I accidentally move the ball I'm trying to draw a line for.

As far as the "pro's solution" I would just post the link. Anyone who wants to post their own layout will do so without reading the other posts anyway.

dwhite
 
Dan White said:
I replied to this today, but the post disappeared! Sorry about the 2 ball moving. Sometimes when I double click to make a line I accidentally move the ball I'm trying to draw a line for.

As far as the "pro's solution" I would just post the link. Anyone who wants to post their own layout will do so without reading the other posts anyway.

dwhite
Click to expand...
No foul. I didn't mean to imply that you moved the 2-ball improperly. I just assumed you were asking if I placed it properly, and trying to show me that if I had placed it a little closer to the pocket for a makeable shot you would go in the side. I agree it's hard to know for sure on the screen.
I'll wait until tomorrow to post the link just in case. But I'll PM it to you now.
Jeff
 
The Pro's Pattern

Here's the link to Mike Sigel's sequence. This was the end of his 3rd rack against Steve Mizerak in the 1992 US Open. He looked a bit disappointed a couple of times during this sequence, having to shoot shots he didn't want to perhaps. But he had no problem getting to the break shot because he had insurance balls throughout.
Jeff
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AaxV3BYxj3CElq4DAEc4EFCB4FHua4GOqK4HRtM3PCSR@3AaxV3BYxj3CElq4DAEc4EFCB4FHua4GOqK4HRtM3PCSR4cRtM4cdGt3kCSR4kPhG4kbYV4kMxr@3AaxV3BYxj3CElq4DAEc4EFCB4FHua4GOqK4PMxr4bOqK4bcYs4kMxr4kMhu4kMtx4kCji3kaqv3kSGs@3AaxV3BYxj3CElq4DAEc4EFCB4FHua3PSGs3VYxj2VbKv3kSGs3kYhy3kagA3kOWG@3AaxV3CElq4DAEc4EFCB4FHua3POWG4YFCB4Ychw3kOWG4kDFq2kRXh@3AaxV3CElq4DAEc4FHua2PRXh3UaxV3UbKt2kRXh3kaxE3kOPI@3CElq4DAEc4FHua3POPI3WElq4WdGs3kOPI3kHGj3kNdj3kasP3kQUG@4DAEc4FHua3PQUG4XAEc4Xchs3kQUG3kCQT4kHri@4FHua4PHri@
 
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