Do you use an aiming system or go by feel?

[cookie man]

Actually that's an interesting question. What does Stan's DVD say about where your eyes should be focused as you get down into shooting position? I bet if you focus only on the cue ball as you get down, you might end up in a different shooting position (ie, aim) than if you look at the object ball as you get into shooting position.

For the record, here's my experience: When I shoot shot 5 from the video, the ball either goes in the pocket, or nearly does. When I shoot shot 1, with the same ETA/CTE visual and then 1/2 tip pivot from the left side to CCB, the object ball practically goes in the side pocket. It isn't even close to the corner pocket. So for me, shot 5 is close to a natural shot, not shot 1.

Funny how that one paragraph above has launched a thousand posts.

I go down looking at the cue ball.
If your getting those results then you need some more practice and understanding of the visuals.

 

[cookie man]

I can't answer for sure because I'm not in your head while it's happening, but my guess is that "getting the visual" is where most of it is done with some fine-tuning through the final pivot.

Subjective adjusting doesn't reflect poorly on CTE, and if I was you I wouldn't dwell on it much - the system seems to give you the framework you need to make the needed adjustments without too much mental effort or distraction, and that's just what you want. If it gets you in the zone, stay there and don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

pj
chgo

But i'm getting the visuals standing up and going right into center cue with my sweep or pivot, not even looking at object ball. Virtually impossible to any subjective adjusting.

 

[cookie man]

The CTE & ETA lines are the same regardless of where the balls are on the table. That's science. To say otherwise goes against that science. 2 points define a straight line. To see the 2 lines simultaneously & equally can only be done from along ONE line. If you move off of the line you just went off objectivity & into the realm of subjectivity.


.

Just plain wrong. You need to move past this stance and have more of an understanding of CTE if you want to pursue things.

 

[cookie man]

CTE & ETA can only be seen equally from along the one line that bisects them.

When you move off of that line you just left the objective & went to the subjective & YOUR determination of what the perception of the shot is.

The CTE & ETA lines are the same regardless of where the balls are on the table. That's science. To say otherwise goes against that science. 2 points define a straight line. To see the 2 lines simultaneously & equally can only be done from along ONE line. If you move off of the line you just went off objectivity & into the realm of subjectivity.

Stan nor anyone else has given any definitive instructions nor description of any other line. 'move until you see the 'proper' perception' is NOT any definitive instructions nor has there been any objective description of exactly what that his.

When I shot the 5 shots, I saw the CTE & ETA line simultaneously & it was the same for shot 1, 2 ,3 ,4 , & 5.

When I was finished, I set up #5 & shot it hard my way & ratted it in the 4" pocket. I then set it up again & drilled into the center of the pocket using TOI.

Could I go through the steps of finding the CTE & ETA line & position myself to see them simultaneously & then realize that even with a thinning pivot it will be too thick & then move to add cut?

Sure...but that would involve my subjectivity regarding the shot.

I know this is most probably wasted on you, but I will take a page from JB & thank you for the opportunity to tell it like it is.

Best Wishes.

You tell it like you want it to be but don't address my question.
Standing i get the CTE visuals and go down to center cue ball with a sweep or manual pivot, only looking at the cue ball on the way down, how can i possibly then make any kind of subjective adjustment. In fact i can just go ahead and shoot without ever looking at object ball and make it.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Just plain wrong. You need to move past this stance and have more of an understanding of CTE if you want to pursue things.

Perhaps you need to brush up on some science education.

Best Wishes.

 

[ENGLISH!]

You tell it like you want it to be but don't address my question.
Standing i get the CTE visuals and go down to center cue ball with a sweep or manual pivot, only looking at the cue ball on the way down, how can i possibly then make any kind of subjective adjustment. In fact i can just go ahead and shoot without ever looking at object ball and make it.

I've already answered you, I think yesterday.

Given the previous post there's no point to try to explain it again.

You think you are seeing different lines depending on where the balls are positioned on the table.

I'd like you to explain the science that allows & makes that possible.

Best Wishes.

 

[JB Cases]

John,

So... are you saying that the method I described as CJ's is a completely objective aiming method?

Best Wishes.

The way you described it sounds completely objective.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[Neil]

CTE & ETA can only be seen equally from along the one line that bisects them.

When you move off of that line you just left the objective & went to the subjective & YOUR determination of what the perception of the shot is.

The CTE & ETA lines are the same regardless of where the balls are on the table. That's science. To say otherwise goes against that science. 2 points define a straight line. To see the 2 lines simultaneously & equally can only be done from along ONE line. If you move off of the line you just went off objectivity & into the realm of subjectivity.

Stan nor anyone else has given any definitive instructions nor description of any other line. 'move until you see the 'proper' perception' is NOT any definitive instructions nor has there been any objective description of exactly what that his.

When I shot the 5 shots, I saw the CTE & ETA line simultaneously & it was the same for shot 1, 2 ,3 ,4 , & 5.

When I was finished, I set up #5 & shot it hard my way & ratted it in the 4" pocket. I then set it up again & drilled into the center of the pocket using TOI.

Could I go through the steps of finding the CTE & ETA line & position myself to see them simultaneously & then realize that even with a thinning pivot it will be too thick & then move to add cut?

Sure...but that would involve my subjectivity regarding the shot.

I know this is most probably wasted on you, but I will take a page from JB & thank you for the opportunity to tell it like it is.

Best Wishes.

Your problem is, you want to discredit the system, so you say there has never been any definitive steps on how to find the visuals correctly. That is so wrong, and so untrue, that it amazes me that you dare even type it. Stan has numerous videos on it, I and others have typed it out in detail. You ignore all of it to suit your desires. And you dare care others disingenuous.

You are doing the steps the way you want to, not the way described. And you know you are. You know you are because we have gone over this same nonsense numerous times on here.

Stan says the system requires visual intelligence. It's clear you lack that. And, I'm not saying that in a mean way at all. It's just the truth. You apparently don't have the visual intelligence to even know how to start the steps as given. You do them your own way which is doomed to failure, and you keep doing it your way.

And, which is it, you only object to the word objective? Or were all those statements false, and you also object to no definitive statements on where to stand in your mind?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

But i'm getting the visuals standing up and going right into center cue with my sweep or pivot, not even looking at object ball. Virtually impossible to any subjective adjusting.

You know where the pocket is - Stan's curtain trick shows this in spades, and you even have your peripheral vision to help.

And you're underestimating the abilities of the subconscious. It does 99.999% of all our moment-to-moment computations, plus runs and regulates all our biological "equipment", even while we're sleeping - all without our even being aware of it. The conscious mind that we're so proud of isn't even in the same galaxy with its pure computational power.

pj <- we think we're in charge... lol
chgo

 

[Neil]

I've already answered you, I think yesterday.

Given the previous post there's no point to try to explain it again.

You think you are seeing different lines depending on where the balls are positioned on the table.

I'd like you to explain the science that allows & makes that possible.

Best Wishes.

It's called visual intelligence. Maybe you should go watch those videos so you have an idea what it is.

 

[cookie man]

Perhaps you need to brush up on some science education.

Best Wishes.

Perhaps, but you would still be wrong

 

[cookie man]

I've already answered you, I think yesterday.

Given the previous post there's no point to try to explain it again.

You think you are seeing different lines depending on where the balls are positioned on the table.

I'd like you to explain the science that allows & makes that possible.

Best Wishes.

You didn't answer cause you have no idea what cte really is

 

[cookie man]

You know where the pocket is - Stan's curtain trick shows this in spades, and you even have your peripheral vision to help.

And you're underestimating the abilities of the subconscious. It does 99.999% of all our moment-to-moment computations, plus runs and regulates all our biological "equipment", even while we're sleeping - all without our even being aware of it. The conscious mind that we're so proud of isn't even in the same galaxy with its pure computational power.

pj <- we think we're in charge... lol
chgo

So you don't know at what point it supposedly takes over.
Stan's curtain shots show that you pick up the visuals, pivot or sweep to center cue ball and shoot the ball in the hole. No subconscious aiming.

 

[stan shuffett]

You know where the pocket is - Stan's curtain trick shows this in spades, and you even have your peripheral vision to help.

And you're underestimating the abilities of the subconscious. It does 99.999% of all our moment-to-moment computations, plus runs and regulates all our biological "equipment", even while we're sleeping - all without our even being aware of it. The conscious mind that we're so proud of isn't even in the same galaxy with its pure computational power.

pj <- we think we're in charge... lol
chgo

No trickery with a curtain. CTE takes me to the shot line......I do not know where the pocket is. I know this, though, because I am on a 2x1 table I know where the right angles occur. Having said that, there is no way I can accurateky point a laser under the curtain for precisely locating a pocket. I might would be a favorite to laser in on some portion of the opening if the pocket were double-sized. But, I do not have to worry about that.......CTE beats my lazer pointing hands down.

It is easily demonstrated at a table.

Stan Shuffett

 

[duckie]

Visual intelligence = database of shots over time.

A person playing for the first time has no visual intelligence. CTE does not provide visual intelligence. It is seeing and doing over time that does.,,,,ie practice, seeing the cb/OB hit, not CTE.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Your problem is, you want to discredit the system, so you say there has never been any definitive steps on how to find the visuals correctly. That is so wrong, and so untrue, that it amazes me that you dare even type it. Stan has numerous videos on it, I and others have typed it out in detail. You ignore all of it to suit your desires. And you dare care others disingenuous.

You are doing the steps the way you want to, not the way described. And you know you are. You know you are because we have gone over this same nonsense numerous times on here.

Stan says the system requires visual intelligence. It's clear you lack that. And, I'm not saying that in a mean way at all. It's just the truth. You apparently don't have the visual intelligence to even know how to start the steps as given. You do them your own way which is doomed to failure, and you keep doing it your way.

And, which is it, you only object to the word objective? Or were all those statements false, and you also object to no definitive statements on where to stand in your mind?

What does the phrase 'visual intelligence' that Stan uses really mean?

Is it a coined phrase to replace subjective perception?

You should try to remember that it's the 'how & why
that is trying to be isolated for those that have success when 'using' the 'system' & it's not objectivity but instead it's their 'visual intelligence/subjective perception' which comes form them & NOT the 'system'.

You defend the 'science' in pool all of the time. If you knew any science on your own from outside of what you've been told by others regarding pool, you'd be on the other side of the fence on this subject instead of trying to defend it with loose language & misuse of language & subjective use of language.

AND you would not be 'attacking' individuals & making false accusations but instead would stay focused on the subject matter.

Or... maybe not.

Best Wishes.

 

[ENGLISH!]

You know where the pocket is - Stan's curtain trick shows this in spades, and you even have your peripheral vision to help.

And you're underestimating the abilities of the subconscious. It does 99.999% of all our moment-to-moment computations, plus runs and regulates all our biological "equipment", even while we're sleeping - all without our even being aware of it. The conscious mind that we're so proud of isn't even in the same galaxy with its pure computational power.

pj <- we think we're in charge... lol
chgo

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

The Subconscious Mind is an Amazing 'Entity'.

 

[ENGLISH!]

It's called visual intelligence. Maybe you should go watch those videos so you have an idea what it is.

What is 'visual intelligence'?

You're a Great Parrot, Neil.

Is it subjective perception on a subconscious level?

The objectivity of the 'system' falls apart at the point & moment one ventures off on their own to 'move until you see the proper perception for the shot at hand'.

There is NO objective instruction of what that perception looks like & there are NO objective instructions that tell how to get to see it.

This is a bigger hole than the holes between the objective visual alignments.

You either do NOT understand what objective is OR... you are disingenuous, or you fit Poolplaya9's analysis & description of you to a tee.

Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

Visual intelligence = database of shots over time.

A person playing for the first time has no visual intelligence. CTE does not provide visual intelligence. It is seeing and doing over time that does.,,,,ie practice, seeing the cb/OB hit, not CTE.

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

 

[ENGLISH!]

Perhaps, but you would still be wrong

Please see my previous posts to Neil & also Duckie Greg's post.

You've already seen PJ's

Best Wishes.

PS You never did answer my question regarding whether or not you are related to Neil in any way. Are You?