Does anyone actually believe GAMBLING will
- Thread starter CocoboloCowboy
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mark8950 said:
Your desire to win makes you play harder. If money on the line is what it takes to get that desire to win to come out for you then congratulations. I just don't like you guys telling me I can't concentrate on my games without money being involved. Hell, I played a few sets for cash last night and came out on the losing end. I guess it didn't work.
MULLY
I won the straight pool 100-48 and lost 2 sets of 9-ball out of 3. Short races to five the outcome was 5-1 4-5 4-5.
depends on the person
I see this thread is still alive so I'll post again, pretty much supporting Mully. Gambling can make your game better. However many seem to think that everyone must gamble to develop their best game. That I consider flat wrong.
When I was first playing it was usually for the table, a beer, or a drink if anything at all. I had enough cash in my pocket that the money didn't mean anything, losing did. I played every night that the sun went down and bought my own table. Winning was the obsession.
As I mentioned earlier, in several other forms of competition I didn't gamble although some did. This had zero effect on my desire to win and be the best. For some of us the desire to win is the only goad needed and everything else is secondary, even the cash.
If I am poking balls around on a social evening and the person playing me considers it very important that they have to win that is all it takes for me to go into competition mode. If it is important to them to defeat me, it is equally important to me to deny them.
Some people are naturally highly competitive, some are not. I guess that gambling is one way to provide motivation for those that aren't. However it is the motivation that gambling provides, not the gambling itself that is the goad. In the past some on this forum have said a really nice trophy is a goad. Allison Fisher says the same although I don't know if she is serious. My opinion from the days when the powers that be wanted me to risk an expensive race car for just a trophy or a trophy and less than expenses is that I wouldn't give a bucket of spit for a trophy ten feet tall. I have won many incidental to other things and I haven't kept any. Titles and records I like because they prove I was the best on that day, maybe still haven't been surpassed, the chrome just collects dust.
It all comes down to what motivates each of us as individuals.
Hu
I see this thread is still alive so I'll post again, pretty much supporting Mully. Gambling can make your game better. However many seem to think that everyone must gamble to develop their best game. That I consider flat wrong.
When I was first playing it was usually for the table, a beer, or a drink if anything at all. I had enough cash in my pocket that the money didn't mean anything, losing did. I played every night that the sun went down and bought my own table. Winning was the obsession.
As I mentioned earlier, in several other forms of competition I didn't gamble although some did. This had zero effect on my desire to win and be the best. For some of us the desire to win is the only goad needed and everything else is secondary, even the cash.
If I am poking balls around on a social evening and the person playing me considers it very important that they have to win that is all it takes for me to go into competition mode. If it is important to them to defeat me, it is equally important to me to deny them.
Some people are naturally highly competitive, some are not. I guess that gambling is one way to provide motivation for those that aren't. However it is the motivation that gambling provides, not the gambling itself that is the goad. In the past some on this forum have said a really nice trophy is a goad. Allison Fisher says the same although I don't know if she is serious. My opinion from the days when the powers that be wanted me to risk an expensive race car for just a trophy or a trophy and less than expenses is that I wouldn't give a bucket of spit for a trophy ten feet tall. I have won many incidental to other things and I haven't kept any. Titles and records I like because they prove I was the best on that day, maybe still haven't been surpassed, the chrome just collects dust.
It all comes down to what motivates each of us as individuals.
Hu
AGAIN, the question was "will it make you better?" Yes, you guys that are saying that you don't need, or "it isn't necessary" to gamble may be right. I will not refute that statement. "WILL IT MAKE YOU BETTER?" Bet your ass on it, and for those of you that don't gamble, bet funsies on it.ShootingArts said:
For those who say they never gamble, how the hell would you know if it helps you, then? If you don't do it, how would you know? Whatever, there will always be that one jack@%% at the poolroom that says, "sure, if you can beat me for cash, why won't you play for fun and try that on?!" Because I have nothing to gain, and everything to lose. Table time, getting beat (maybe by loss of interest because of all sorts of reasons), or just taking a loss for nothing. Why would I spend that time, unless the guy's a friend or someone I just really didn't like. MOST of the guys that say this kind of thing can't win with the five and the break anyway. They just want to be seen playing with someone who has a rep for being a "player." There might be the occasional guy who could beat me for fun. So what? Does anyone think the "gambling player" will go home thinking, "Wow, I have to have my fun revenge on that guy."? It's two completely different mindsets.
Also, with respect to most of the people that are "players" and have gambled on here. I do believe some choose not to. Good choice if it really is your choice. I never bet what isn't comfortable, and don't frivolously piss away money. But, I always look for action first. But.... for those of you who say you don't gamble who mean they don't play anyone that's better than themselves and don't like being "hustled," you are missing your potential. And for some of you who don't gamble out of fear and are simply giving bullshit statements of why you don't (you know who you are), shame on you. Not for not gambling, but for being liars. Nothing wrong with being a lambkiller. Just admit it, though.
I don't know how serious you are in this answer, but if you are, you've got the wrong forum. Maybe you're thinking of RSB, but certainly not this one. Of all the forums, this one (and of course onepocket.org) has the most players, IMO. I think that's what the attraction has been to this particular forum over the years.mullyman said:
With regular posters like Jay Helfert, Colin Colenso, SJM, Blackjack, SJDick, Freddy the Beard, John Schmidt! Karl Boyes and Darren Appleton post here as well!
Of course the poll results mean something. And I dont' know why you're still on this, considering the poll had the standard nitwit choices to signify that it was only a half-ass joke poll. Anyone who took it serious apparentlly didn't get that.
I guess after all of the posts, I don't see why you're still beating this drum, even though the post and the poll doesn't even say anything contrary to what you're saying. You keep saying your post as if someone is disagreeing with you. I think a very high percentage (like, 100%?) agrees with you. So, what is making you continue beating that when nobody (or very few) actually disagrees?
Now, if you want to disagree with the people who say that gambling can help, then go ahead. That'd be a good read. That's what Bruce was looking for in the first place. If you want to disagree to those who say that gambling is the best way to pressure on yourself, then that's a good debate as well. But, nobody that I've seen has implied that it's necessary to become a good player. If that ever becomes the question, that debate would be squashed rather quickly. It isn't necessary.
Fred <~~~ never watched Life, but voted for that one
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Okay, then it's a non sequitur. Take your pick.emccune said:
Yes, except for the people who voted actually are responding from their experience. That's a different concept than "do you believe the earth is flat."
The fact that you've noticed that here is part of the essence of this particular question as well as all similar questions. But, I think only those that think there's an implication that the question suggests that, "gambling is the most important..." e.g., is where there are problems in the posts, answers, and rebuttals. That is, to sound harsh Ed, that's *your* problem. And it's *Mully's* problem. And you know I respect both of you a lot, but your posts are the issue, not the those that said "yes." Those that said "yes" didn't "sidestep the criticism." They gave reasons why they're saying "Yes." That's what the original question asked for. Without adding the reasons why they said , "yes," then you could say that they were implying this or that. But since they gave their full comments, there's no implications. There was only specific reasonings.
Again, those that said "yes" actually answered the question as asked. Those that rebutted those yes answers seemed to not take that into consideration.
Fred
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First the real question
(included text, the thread starter!)
Does anyone actually believe GAMBLING will
Make you a better Pool Player. I hear this song and dance all the time, and I believe the answer is NO.
If you believe differently.......JUSTIFY WHY YOU THINK NOT
(end included text)
There is the original question without the rewording. Note the question is what you believe and to justify it if you think gambling will make you a better player. Perfectly reasonable to justify why some think it isn't always necessary also.
Who has the bigger cohunes? I have bet $80,000 on a single game of bar table eightball when it was very close to my entire net worth. I have also sunk every dime I had and every dime I could borrow into start up businesses over and over. Anyone who thinks they are a gambler should try that on for size! Last year I gambled everything I had on two chances in three, including my health. Most of the posters in this thread that call themselves gamblers have never laid more than a tiny fraction of what I have bet on the line.
Having gotten that out of the way, I bettered a world record with nothing bet. I also set local records for a few dollar purse and pride. I risked life, limb, and every dime I could rake and scrape racing circle track with my own cars without betting a penny. When it came time to try to win if it cost a car or engine that was just the chance I took.
Gambling for what 99% of people are willing to gamble for on a pool table doesn't provide me any additional motivation.
Hu
(included text, the thread starter!)
Does anyone actually believe GAMBLING will
Make you a better Pool Player. I hear this song and dance all the time, and I believe the answer is NO.
If you believe differently.......JUSTIFY WHY YOU THINK NOT
(end included text)
There is the original question without the rewording. Note the question is what you believe and to justify it if you think gambling will make you a better player. Perfectly reasonable to justify why some think it isn't always necessary also.
Who has the bigger cohunes? I have bet $80,000 on a single game of bar table eightball when it was very close to my entire net worth. I have also sunk every dime I had and every dime I could borrow into start up businesses over and over. Anyone who thinks they are a gambler should try that on for size! Last year I gambled everything I had on two chances in three, including my health. Most of the posters in this thread that call themselves gamblers have never laid more than a tiny fraction of what I have bet on the line.
Having gotten that out of the way, I bettered a world record with nothing bet. I also set local records for a few dollar purse and pride. I risked life, limb, and every dime I could rake and scrape racing circle track with my own cars without betting a penny. When it came time to try to win if it cost a car or engine that was just the chance I took.
Gambling for what 99% of people are willing to gamble for on a pool table doesn't provide me any additional motivation.
Hu
crawfish said:
I too have wrapped quarters to help fund my first carpet store. With a family. We risked a pretty good income to get started. That really isn't gambling if you believe you're good at what you're doing. I think we're missing the point here. I take the post to mean occasionally betting a small chunk of change against a fairly closely matched opponent. I don't mean put a second mortgage on the house. Do that, you're just stupid.ShootingArts said:
Placing some sort of cash, just enough to bite you, on a pool game will either:
A: bring out the best in you
B: make you wish you knew how to play tiddlywinks
C: make you strive to be a better player
small business
Not to offend but anyone who doesn't think starting a small business is a huge gamble is ignorant of the facts. 85% of small businesses fail within the first five years. Believe in yourself and what you are doing or not, those are tough odds in anybody's book.
The $80K pool game was a crapshoot unless I won the lag so I could as easily said I lagged for $80K. If I broke safe and Steve didn't risk it all on a rebreak I almost certainly had him. On an open table it was anybody's game.
I have also beaten top road players including one that is sometimes mentioned on here as the best player ever. The bets were ridiculously low by today's standards, even that day's, but they were on the road and it was their last money. I know I busted one flat and another one quit me when he became convinced he wasn't getting back on the table that night or was busted, I don't know which. I had a very successful business and the amounts bet didn't mean a thing to me, beating top players meant everything.
Hu
Not to offend but anyone who doesn't think starting a small business is a huge gamble is ignorant of the facts. 85% of small businesses fail within the first five years. Believe in yourself and what you are doing or not, those are tough odds in anybody's book.
The $80K pool game was a crapshoot unless I won the lag so I could as easily said I lagged for $80K. If I broke safe and Steve didn't risk it all on a rebreak I almost certainly had him. On an open table it was anybody's game.
I have also beaten top road players including one that is sometimes mentioned on here as the best player ever. The bets were ridiculously low by today's standards, even that day's, but they were on the road and it was their last money. I know I busted one flat and another one quit me when he became convinced he wasn't getting back on the table that night or was busted, I don't know which. I had a very successful business and the amounts bet didn't mean a thing to me, beating top players meant everything.
Hu
crawfish said:
Makes sense, and I totally agree about starting your own business. I was scared daily for the first two years.ShootingArts said:
I have knocked off a few "players", also. None of what you call "top tier" or even low level pro. But, I would never bet enough to make it worth someone's drive to come looking for me.
I just feel that wagering enough on a set or session to get under your skin is good for your game. So, yes, gambling at any level will further your ability.
mullyman said:
Cuephoric said:
Great Story.
Remember as a young guy many nights getting off work around 11:00pm, and stopping on the way home at a Room called North Hollywood Billiards, in North HollyWeird California.
What always amazed me was when the Road Players came to town, many cleaned up in the pool room, but the next night were back with nothing.
Road Players always seemed to show up in large numbers when one of the (2) Horse Track in the L.A. Area were running.
Guess I could not understand winning all that money at Pool, and dropping it at the Track on the Ponies.
Many gamblers over the course of their lives win more money than the average working stiff makes in their lives.
Many gambles at the ends of their lives die broke?
CocoboloCowboy said:Great Story.
What always amazed me was when the Road Players came to town, many cleaned up in the pool room, but the next night were back with nothing.
Road Players always seemed to show up in large numbers when one of the (2) Horse Track in the L.A. Area were running.
Guess I could not understand winning all that money at Pool, and dropping it at the Track on the Ponies.
Many gamblers over the course of their lives win more money than the average working stiff makes in their lives.
Many gambles at the ends of their lives die broke?
You're talking road players and hard core gamblers here, and I really don't think that's what this thread was supposed to be about. I would guess that just about everybody who's been seriously involved with pool for the last twenty or thirty years or more knows someone who shouldn't gamble. Where I learned to play, there was a guy we called "Frank the Farmer" who would come in and lose his whole paycheck before he quit. There was a guy named Howard who was in the real estate business who lost thousands playing pool. There was a dentist who did the same and, more recently, a roofing magnate. Only Frank couldn't afford to lose.
This is at least the second time you've alluded to had core, problem gamblers. What the hell does that have to do with the topic??
I would guess that 99.9% of the people who responded to this thread are working folks with families and responsibilities. I resent the implications that people like me are degenerate gamblers just because we feel that betting money on pool games helps you to become a better player. Notice, in my poll about the people you learned from gambled or not, I did not use the word "gamble". I also noticed that you posted that you were confused in your response to the poll. What about?? It was pretty straight forward, I thought.
CocoboloCowboy said:
My grandfather was a degenerate gambler. When he died he left my grandmother with more than nothing, he left her with gambling debts to be paid. Just for that I'm not a big fan of gambling. I don't see it as a necessary evil. I see it as a road to nothing. I gamble small amounts of money now and then, tonight I was playing 5 dollar sets and won 20, but I can just as easily play without it and concentrate fully the entire time and enjoy myself.
MULLY
Pushout said:
Ok, so the question again is "Will gambling make you a better player?"
The answer is yes and no.
If you need the stimulus of gambling to make you focus, yes, gambling can be a tool that will make you get to the table and make you practice. Sorry, again, gambling can't teach you to draw a ball, only practice can do that.
If you don't have the heart to sweat out losing cash then no, gambling will not make you a better player.
MULLY
Cuephoric said:
Interesting post but all you are really saying is the above quote. Gambling made you want to get better and motivated you to relearn the game. So what gambling gave you was motivation. That's all although that is enough.
You could have got that motivation from anywhere but, for you, gambling provided it. That's fair but it doesn't logically follow that gambling is what DIRECTLY caused the improvment in your game. Desire to improve was the true cause, driving you to practice more and "relearn the game."
Gambling just gave you the desire. Not a bad thing though. Whatever it takes I guess.
Ed