Does anyone actually believe GAMBLING will

[JCIN]

It makes total sense, Russ. Gambling isn't going to improve your play, only practice will do that. Gambling will make the game more interesting for you if that's what you prefer but it won't improve your technique etc... I don't care how much anyone bets. You can bet a billion dollars and it's not going to improve your draw stroke. Hours of practice by yourself is the only thing that is going to accomplish that. Betting is entertainment, just like watching football.
MULLY

So if you match up with someone who is of equal speed as you but is in action constantly versus just practicing by himself you don't think the guy who competes more has an advantage?

I know for a fact Shane practices by himself all the time and has for years. It wasnt until he started drilling people in action games that his confidence and mental game reached the level where he could compete and win at the highest level. You can say it doesnt matter all you want but history says different.

 

[Pushout]

It makes total sense, Russ. Gambling isn't going to improve your play, only practice will do that. Gambling will make the game more interesting for you if that's what you prefer but it won't improve your technique etc... I don't care how much anyone bets. You can bet a billion dollars and it's not going to improve your draw stroke. Hours of practice by yourself is the only thing that is going to accomplish that. Betting is entertainment, just like watching football.
MULLY

No, it makes no sense, just as Russ said. Again, gambling makes you concentrate so you don't lose. You pay more attention to the physical and mental aspects of playing. Betting something keeps you from getting sloppy. You learn to handle the pressure, which is something you'll never do playing by yourself.

 

[Cornerman]

Let me ask you something Crawfish how many great players do you know?
and how many of them have actually said gambling is a requirement?

That wasn't the question, so there's no reason to reframe the post.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

And one more thing, saying you can't get better if you don't gamble

Again, that's not what the original question was. Anyone answering to this questin (which wasn't asked) is just another forum poster doing the bull$hit debate fallacy.

The question was: Does anyone actually believe that Gambling will Make you a better Pool Player. The answer is yes or no. There was no question or hint about "Is Gambling the only way to get beter." There was no "Does gambling make you worse." There was no "Is gambling better than practice." There was none of that.

Does anyone actually believe that Gambling will make you a better player? If people can't stick to the question, then they can't answer the question.


Fred

 

[Roger Long]

It makes total sense, Russ. Gambling isn't going to improve your play, only practice will do that. Gambling will make the game more interesting for you if that's what you prefer but it won't improve your technique etc... I don't care how much anyone bets. You can bet a billion dollars and it's not going to improve your draw stroke. Hours of practice by yourself is the only thing that is going to accomplish that. Betting is entertainment, just like watching football.
MULLY

You're right, Mully. Your previous statement did make total sense. Gambling merely adds an element of enjoyment to the game for those who need that element. I, for one, do not need it. I enjoy all great competitions to the max, without ever betting a dime.

It's been stated here many times that gambling adds pressure, which in turn makes you play better. But it's also been stated that you should never gamble more than you can afford to lose. My question would then be, if you can afford to lose something, how much pressure can it really be adding? It's only when you're betting more than you can afford to lose that the real pressure shows up. But then if you did that, you would be getting into the sick side of gambling, and it would have little to do with trying to play better pool.

Study and practice are the things that make me a better player. My own love of the game and will to win is what makes me play up to my potential. If other players need to have money on the line before they can concentrate or enjoy the game, then that's their weakness, not mine.:wink:

Oh, one more thing. I'm not talking about professionals here. They have already reached a very high level of play, and they have to continue to try and make a living the best way they know how. I'm talking about all of us amateurs who really shouldn't be too concerned about the benefits that gambling might have to offer unless we seriously intend to go pro, ourselves.

Roger

 

[mullyman]

No, it makes no sense, just as Russ said. Again, gambling makes you concentrate so you don't lose. You pay more attention to the physical and mental aspects of playing. Betting something keeps you from getting sloppy. You learn to handle the pressure, which is something you'll never do playing by yourself.

If we played and didn't bet and you couldn't get your game together I'd have to say it's the gambler that has the concentration problem. No pride in winning just to win? I can't stand losing a match. I also don't care about losing money. I have so much pride in my game that the money doesn't even enter my mind. And to be honest, I don't like taking money from people. If you enjoy it then more power to ya, I'm not comfortable with it.
MULLY

 

[mullyman]

Again, that's not what the original question was. Anyone answering to this questin (which wasn't asked) is just another forum poster doing the bull$hit debate fallacy.

The question was: Does anyone actually believe that Gambling will Make you a better Pool Player. The answer is yes or no. There was no question or hint about "Is Gambling the only way to get beter." There was no "Does gambling make you worse." There was no "Is gambling better than practice." There was none of that.

Does anyone actually believe that Gambling will make you a better player? If people can't stick to the question, then they can't answer the question.


Fred

Then my answer is no. Gambling will not make you a better player.
MULLY

 

[Cuephoric]

Let me ask you something Crawfish how many great players do you know?
and how many of them have actually said gambling is a requirement?

As I recall, Crawfish was hanging out with some pretty big dogs when we started talking a couple of years ago.... Not one of which was willing to turn down a game that walked in the door.
Is it a requirement? I don't know that that's the right term neccesarily, but it was definately more than just an option.

If it is something that you are good at. I mean really good at, and someone came along and said that they were willing to bet they were better than you at it.
Nobody around has beaten you at what you are good at, let's say driving a golfball farther than anyone else in the club.
The guy challenging you isn't tiger Woods...... are you willing to step up to the plate or are you willing to concede that he MIGHT be better than you.
Does the money put more pressure on you, or does the unknown challenge?
A mixture of both?
Now take two fairly comparable opponents, both well known, even if it's in their own small pond.
They both like to put something on the line, and aren't afraid to face a good challenge.
I'm not talking about a shortstop playing an APA skill level 2 or 3, I'm not talking about robbery, I'm talking about a good matchup.
Gambling, not Hustling, not entering a Tournament.
If you ARE in a tournament, and your next opponent that you know is your speed wants to bet some on the side, what's your answer?
Are you still a tournament player, or are you now a Gambler?
And if you are willing to put up some money to play for more money, what's the difference?


Personally, I don't know how you can become a stronger payer without finding out how strong you are.
The only way to know that is to put something on it to separate you from teh fish that you've been playing.
Until you've played someone that is at least your speed, or better, for something, you don't learn that edge that you only get from winning something.
Nobody ever takes you seriously if you beat someone for free day after day, but beat them out of rent one night, and nobody takes you lightly anymore.
It turns out just like anything else.money =respect, and the more money you win, the more respect you'll get.
So in a long winded, round about way, I have to say no, it doesn't make you better, only practice does that. Gambling makes you a stronger player.

 

[Roger Long]

Again, that's not what the original question was. Anyone answering to this questin (which wasn't asked) is just another forum poster doing the bull$hit debate fallacy.

The question was: Does anyone actually believe that Gambling will Make you a better Pool Player. The answer is yes or no. There was no question or hint about "Is Gambling the only way to get beter." There was no "Does gambling make you worse." There was no "Is gambling better than practice." There was none of that.

Does anyone actually believe that Gambling will make you a better player? If people can't stick to the question, then they can't answer the question.


Fred

Oh, please excuse me. I'm new here, and I thought this was a discussion forum. Now that I know it's a single-word answer forum, my answer is: NO (gambling does not make you a better player).

Roger

 

[jamesroberts]

the people that don't think gambling makes you play better probably dog it

 

[lewdo26]

If we played and didn't bet and you couldn't get your game together I'd have to say it's the gambler that has the concentration problem. No pride in winning just to win? I can't stand losing a match. I also don't care about losing money. I have so much pride in my game that the money doesn't even enter my mind. And to be honest, I don't like taking money from people. If you enjoy it then more power to ya, I'm not comfortable with it.
MULLY

It's a question of whether you want to play your best under more pressure or under less pressure.

My understanding of the game is: avoiding risk/error consistently, under pressure, and OVER TIME.

Recreational players will not beat players who are constantly testing their comfort zones.

 

[mullyman]

It's a question of whether you want to play your best under more pressure or under less pressure.

Again, playing 25 dollar sets with a punter at the pool room doesn't seem like gambling to me. If you want to gamble grab someone like Efren and put your bank account against his. If you can afford to lose the bet then it's not really gambling, it's giving some table money to the winner of the set.

Recreational players will not beat players who are constantly testing their comfort zones.

Sorry, I just can't agree with that.
MULLY

 

[softshot]

It's been stated here many times that gambling adds pressure, which in turn makes you play better. But it's also been stated that you should never gamble more than you can afford to lose. My question would then be, if you can afford to lose something, how much pressure can it really be adding? It's only when you're betting more than you can afford to lose that the real pressure shows up. But then if you did that, you would be getting into the sick side of gambling, and it would have little to do with trying to play better pool.

I completely agree with this.

Any person truely driven to be the best at anything. hates losing period.. they put internal pressure on themselves simply by having a strong desire to win.. could be for a million dollars could be for absolutely nothing. and the truely driven player will take both losses equally hard.

I think its more about personality types than it is whether or not to gamble...

 

[mullyman]

This will be my last post on this subject. The fact of the matter is that all of us in our respective groups will have to agree to disagree on this topic. None of us non-gamblers are going to be able to sway the gamblers over and the gamblers won't be able to sway us. I just find it insulting that someone says I can't play good enough or handle pressure without gambling. If you have enough confidence in your game it doesn't matter what's on the line. Like I said before, I hate losing. Losing a match chaps my ass more than anything I can think of. Lastly, I also don't consider 20, 50 or even 100 dollar sets as gambling if you can afford to lose it. You're only gambling if losing is going to put you in a position that you don't get the bills paid this week.

I'm not afraid of gambling but I'm also sensible with my life. I have rent, I have a car payment, etc... Those things take priority over shooting pool. When you match up with someone that shoots at the same level as you then those sets could go either way. If anyone goes into an equal match guaranteeing a win then they're fools. It wouldn't be an equal match if you were guaranteed to win. If a handicap is involved then the upper level player is most likely robbing the other person because we all know that gamblers hardly ever make a fair game that gives them a chance to lose.

If you're a gambler then you put everything on the line. Big money in a fair game. Going into it the outcome should be 50/50. Anything short of that is not a gamble.
MULLY

 

[grindz]

I'm sure that everyone can agree on the fact that putting anything on the line that you value....whether it's money, pride (if you have any) or just a personal goal will help to improve your game in pressure situations. Only if you seriously care about what you are playing for.

To put yourself under the gun repeatedly will only help you to deal with being under the gun next time. It's just like practice....only you are learning how to handle nerves. No different than learning a consistent stroke IMO.

The fact is that there are Asian countries that are teaching pool in school right now, and those kids are just starting to hit the big scene. I doubt that gambling is part of the curriculum but these kids CAN PLAY.

As to the gambling argument, that will never end. It is just a divisive issue and those of you that do, then that is probably a reason you took to the game and is inseperable from your enjoyment of it. Those of you that don't ....how about just quitting antogonizing those that do. Let's all take the high road and just agree to disagree....

For all you NON gamblers if you want a game in the east valley (PHX, Scottsdale) B speed or higher...I'll be happy to play for "Braggin' rights":smile:

td

 

[SJDinPHX]

Again, playing 25 dollar sets with a punter at the pool room doesn't seem like gambling to me. If you want to gamble grab someone like Efren and put your bank account against his. If you can afford to lose the bet then it's not really gambling, it's giving some table money to the winner of the set.




Sorry, I just can't agree with that.
MULLY

Mully, Roger, And all the rest of you guys who look at gambling as an evil and unnecessary part of the pool lifestyle, listen up! If nobody gambled at pool, you would have maybe two good players, Tommy Kennedy and Mike Sigel. They could play each other into oblivion (for funnsies). All the other heathens, Ronnie, Keith,Ed Kelly, Cornbread Red,Buddy Hall, et al, would not even exist. If you think pool is in the doldrums now, where would it be without the colorful gambling element ? Born again may be a great lifestyle for those few guys, but I'll take the guys who have made this game an exciting spectator sport for several generations now. Personally I think NOT GAMBLING at pool or golf, should be considered a felony , or maybe even a capitol offense.

Dick

PS Roger, I'm dying for another funnsie re-match with your hero, Tommy Kennedy, NOT !!!!
PPS Bruce, did I "justify" to your satisfaction ?

 

[SJDinPHX]

Again, playing 25 dollar sets with a punter at the pool room doesn't seem like gambling to me. If you want to gamble grab someone like Efren and put your bank account against his. If you can afford to lose the bet then it's not really gambling, it's giving some table money to the winner of the set.




Sorry, I just can't agree with that.
MULLY

Mully, Roger, And all the rest of you guys who look at gambling as an evil and unnecessary part of the pool lifestyle, listen up! If nobody gambled at pool, you would have maybe two good players, Tommy Kennedy and Mike Sigel. They could play each other into oblivion (for funnsies). All the other heathens, Ronnie, Keith,Ed Kelly, Cornbread Red,Buddy Hall, et al, would not even exist. If you think pool is in the doldrums now, where would it be without the colorful gambling element ? Born again may be a great lifestyle for those few guys, but I'll take the guys who have made this game an exciting spectator sport for several generations now. Personally I think NOT GAMBLING at pool or golf, should be considered a felony , or maybe even a capitol offense.

Dick

PS Roger, I'm dying for another funnsie re-match with your hero, Tommy Kennedy, NOT !!!!
PPS Bruce, I have to give you credit, you sure know how to start a thread that looks simply stupid, but you do create controversy. LOL

Sorry, double post!!

 

[mullyman]

Mully, Roger, And all the rest of you guys who look at gambling as an evil and unnecessary part of the pool lifestyle, listen up! If nobody gambled at pool, you would have maybe two good players, Tommy Kennedy and Mike Sigel. They could play each other into oblivion (for funnsies). All the other heathens, Ronnie, Keith,Ed Kelly, Cornbread Red,Buddy Hall, et al, would not even exist. If you think pool is in the doldrums now, where would it be without the colorful gambling element ? Born again may be a great lifestyle for those few guys, but I'll take the guys who have made this game an exciting spectator sport for several generations now. Personally I think NOT GAMBLING at pool or golf, should be considered a felony , or maybe even a capitol offense.

Dick

PS Roger, I'm dying for another funnsie re-match with your hero, Tommy Kennedy, NOT !!!!
PPS Bruce, did I "justify" to your satisfaction ?

For the record, I don't think it's evil, I just choose not to do it. I don't think it puts out the best image of the game but then again it may not be the gambling that hurts the game as much as it is the scumbags that try to hustle everyone they see. We all know them.

My entire argument in this is that no one has the right to say I can't play my best without putting money down on it. Who the f**K is anyone to say that because I don't gamble I can't handle pressure? Try me sometime.
MULLY
Every time I try to get out they pull me back in

 

[SJDinPHX]

For the record, I don't think it's evil, I just choose not to do it. I don't think it puts out the best image of the game but then again it may not be the gambling that hurts the game as much as it is the scumbags that try to hustle everyone they see. We all know them.

My entire argument in this is that no one has the right to say I can't play my best without putting money down on it. Who the f**K is anyone to say that because I don't gamble I can't handle pressure? Try me sometime.
MULLY
Every time I try to get out they pull me back in

For the record Mully, I could care less if you or anyone else chooses not to gamble. My point was, how many pool players of any stature would we have WITHOUT gambling ? Not all pool players who like to gamble are "scumbags". Boy you must have gone off a few times, to be so bitter!

 

[SJDinPHX]

Duplicate post