Does anyone else have this problem?
- Thread starter BPG24
- Start date
Templar
Registered
Yes!! I scratch so much more on a bar box than on a big table. I can't figure it out either except that I am used to moving the cue ball around and it just seems to find a pocket more often on the smaller playing surface. I practice on a big table so my shot making is very good on the bar box but my speed control is not so good and I can't seem to get the exact position required on the smaller table. It's exact more so than area position like on the big table. Not to mention clusters and congestion. A lot of people look down their noses at bar table players but I can tell you it isn't easy and in some ways much harder that the big table.
i play so much better on a bar box it's sick. with the bigger pockets and nothing even close to a long shot. on a bar box it pretty much comes down to paterns because the shots don't get that tough.
there is sometime a congestion problem when playing 8 ball but at 9 ball it's not that big a deal
there is sometime a congestion problem when playing 8 ball but at 9 ball it's not that big a deal
BPG24
Banned
I think you guys are missing what I am trying to say...
On a 9' table, you can use subtle amounts of spin and not scratch....
On a bar box this isnt the case alot of the time...
And the post was mostly about how I cannot get into stroke on a barbox because I can almost never stretch out.....
On a 9' table, you can use subtle amounts of spin and not scratch....
On a bar box this isnt the case alot of the time...
And the post was mostly about how I cannot get into stroke on a barbox because I can almost never stretch out.....
I think playing on bar boxes is much easier too. After playing on 9 footers, even long shots on a barbox are simple as pie. The scratch percentage increases on barboxes because of the playing field to pocket size ratio.
For example, assume the pocket openings are 4.5 inches:
9 footer
playing surface: 50" x 100" = 5000 in^2
pocket openings 4.5 * 6 pockets= 27 in
7 footer:
playing surface: 42" x 84" = 3528 in^2
pocket openings: 4.5 * 6 = 27in (although usually larger)
The playing surface decreases, however the pocket area remains the same or is often larger on barboxes. Therefore more scratches occur on barboxes.
However, as one already mentioned the angles are the same so its just a matter of paying closer attention when shooting.
You comment about not being in stroke I can relate to.....but only because you don't need to have a stroke to play on a barbox.
-Phillip
For example, assume the pocket openings are 4.5 inches:
9 footer
playing surface: 50" x 100" = 5000 in^2
pocket openings 4.5 * 6 pockets= 27 in
7 footer:
playing surface: 42" x 84" = 3528 in^2
pocket openings: 4.5 * 6 = 27in (although usually larger)
The playing surface decreases, however the pocket area remains the same or is often larger on barboxes. Therefore more scratches occur on barboxes.
However, as one already mentioned the angles are the same so its just a matter of paying closer attention when shooting.
You comment about not being in stroke I can relate to.....but only because you don't need to have a stroke to play on a barbox.
-Phillip
S
Snoogi
Guest
Mentally you may be more accustomed to 9 footers. It's all about cue acceleration, most of the time we don't want the cueball to travel so much, so don't hit so hard.BPG24 said:
I think even on a 9 footer you still scratch only that the probability is lower than on a 7 footer. 2 feet shorter, area smaller, that proportionately increases the chance of scratching..mathematically speaking I believe so.
BPG24
Banned
I agree that you don't need much of a stroke to play on a bar table...
I have played pool for 8 years..... And haven't ever found anyone else besides me that plays 2 or 3 balls better on a big table than they do on a bar box....
I was hoping that someone else has had the same problems and could help.. I don't need physical measurments of tables sizes or pocket sizes analyzed, I understand all of that.... The spin on a ball has more time to take on a 9' table....
I just have never been able to get in or stay in stroke on a bar table....
due to feeling like I am too close, or cramped to the shot....
I am not a natural ball striker, I am a rythym/feel player...
I have played pool for 8 years..... And haven't ever found anyone else besides me that plays 2 or 3 balls better on a big table than they do on a bar box....
I was hoping that someone else has had the same problems and could help.. I don't need physical measurments of tables sizes or pocket sizes analyzed, I understand all of that.... The spin on a ball has more time to take on a 9' table....
I just have never been able to get in or stay in stroke on a bar table....
due to feeling like I am too close, or cramped to the shot....
I am not a natural ball striker, I am a rythym/feel player...
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BPG24 said:
I have a good friend who is also like this! Before playing, try setting up some long shots and let your stroke out. Just freewheel for about 20 minutes before playing and this can help loosen yourself up. I don't have any other advice as I primarily play on 9 footers.
-Phillip
If a bar box is 7 feet by 3.5 feet it has 24.5 square feet of surface area.A full size table is 9 feet by 4.5 feet and has 40.5 square feet of surface area. That means with the same six pockets and less area to put the ball, you are statistically more likely to put the cue ball in a pocket by mistake. Add to this that many bar tables have huge pockets making it easier to put any ball in a pocket.
BPG24 said:
Bob Henning's advice is pretty good: take a full stroke whenever possible.
Another one, from Bert Kinister, warm up using full table length draw shots, over and over. It'll put you into stroke faster than anything else. And that will work on bar boxes as well as 9 footers.
MTfish
Registered
I'm glad you started this thread. I have the same problem, especially when playing 8 ball in leagues. Making balls is easy on a bar box, but it takes me a long time to get confortable with where whitey is going. One thing that helps me is to practice with a bar cue ball. Mostly, I think I just need to practice more on a box. If you think you ever really figure this out, please let me know.
MTfish said:
You are right. You just need to "practice more on a box". You need to shorten or condense your game to accommadate the table size. Only occassionaly can you use that big stroke that you use on the 4 1/2 x 9.
I play on a 4 1/2 x 9 and play very well and think when I go to a bar box it will be easier --- "that is just not the case".
Yours truly
Without sounding like Capt. Obvious,
Cue ball control is still cue ball control, if the game played on a 9'er as a 7'er.
Smaller surface area on 7'er, larger pockets, you get the idea.
If you are scratching on a 7'er, you are not paying attention to where the cue ball is going, simple as that.
Playing on a bar box is not as easy, and is really where a lot of todays pool action is at.
Cue ball control is still cue ball control, if the game played on a 9'er as a 7'er.
Smaller surface area on 7'er, larger pockets, you get the idea.
If you are scratching on a 7'er, you are not paying attention to where the cue ball is going, simple as that.
Playing on a bar box is not as easy, and is really where a lot of todays pool action is at.
Saying you dont have to have a stroke to play on a bar box is just wrong, to play good pool on any table you have must have a repetable- approach, stroke, and finish to each shot you take, granted it might be a bit different than on a larger table. but a stroke is what your game is made of. Look at the snooker players on a 12' box they use a different stroke that the players do on a 9' box and the bar box players use a different stroke....but everybody has a stroke that can play, only bangers dont have a stroke.
With propler CB control scratching will happen a bit more on a smaller table and the least on a 12' table but good players can see the screatch shots before chosing to shoot them and then use a BIG stroke to swerve the CB to avoid the scratch thus a srtoke is as important no matter what size the table,
as far as 7' boxes being easier sure they are and just as easy for the other player so there is no advantage there, I like 9' & 12' tables the best, but thats me, bar boxes especially the new Diamond ones are great and I believe the way foward for pool. I have a great stroke(I look like I play better than I do, until you watch me for 15 minutes) but now that Diamond has quality 7' tables i'm gonna start playing on them from time to time, I refuse to play on Global or Vally shit boxes, And yes I will 100% have to adjust my stroke, but its still a stroke.
With propler CB control scratching will happen a bit more on a smaller table and the least on a 12' table but good players can see the screatch shots before chosing to shoot them and then use a BIG stroke to swerve the CB to avoid the scratch thus a srtoke is as important no matter what size the table,
as far as 7' boxes being easier sure they are and just as easy for the other player so there is no advantage there, I like 9' & 12' tables the best, but thats me, bar boxes especially the new Diamond ones are great and I believe the way foward for pool. I have a great stroke(I look like I play better than I do, until you watch me for 15 minutes) but now that Diamond has quality 7' tables i'm gonna start playing on them from time to time, I refuse to play on Global or Vally shit boxes, And yes I will 100% have to adjust my stroke, but its still a stroke.
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If you watch the great bar box players, they rarely release the cue ball, and when they do, they know exactly where it's going. On a 9' Gold Crown, you can release the cue ball around the table and generally end up with a shot. The answer is to practice patterns, and exact position rather than general position. On a bar box you can get into trouble in a hurry, so when you release the cue ball three things can happen, and two of them are not good.
I spend a great deal of time going back and forth from 9 footers to bar box's.You just need to remember to play as simple a shot as you can on the bar box.Don't over stroke the shot.You will find it is pretty easy to play on the bar box when you stop trying to be fancy.Like others have said you need to practice as much as you can.