Does line based phenolic tube move?

[josie]

I was experimenting with different A-joint methods and made six cues using the double black linen-based tube Atlas sells as a coupler between the forearm and handle. I know this is a fairly common method and believe some of the more famous cue makers of the past used this technique. All six cues had little to no run-out after being assembled. After a month or so I checked the cues and all of them had moved and had some run out a the A-joint. All the forearms and handles were turned over many months with no movement before connecting them.

While talking to a well known world class cuemaker I mentioned the problem I had experienced and he told me phenolics and linen based materials can move quite a bit. I was very suprised by his comment. I was under the assumption these products were very stable.

Do you guys have any experience or opinions on this? Any input is appreciated.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I doubt it.
Did you epoxy the phen tube then re-bore and thread it later ?

 

[josie]

I doubt it.
Did you epoxy the phen tube then re-bore and thread it later ?

I turned a 1 " X .750" diameter tenon on the handle and then epoxied the phenolic sleeve over that. After curing, I drilled and tapped a hole in the handle to accept the 3/8x10 pin in the forearm. I then bored a hole .750" x .450" deep into the handle to accept the tenon on the forearm.

After screwing the forearm into the handle there was almost zero run-out. All epoxied peices had glue relief cuts.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I turned a 1 " X .750" diameter tenon on the handle and then epoxied the phenolic sleeve over that. After curing, I drilled and tapped a hole in the handle to accept the 3/8x10 pin in the forearm. I then bored a hole .750" x .450" deep into the handle to accept the tenon on the forearm.

After screwing the forearm into the handle there was almost zero run-out. All epoxied peices had glue relief cuts.

Use 7/8 OD phen and thread the bottom 1/2 portion .
You used .750" OD then bored it .
When that 3/8 10 grabbed the phen tube , only the epoxy was holding it. The clearance between the .450" deep tenon and tenon might have been enough to move it enough to wobble the joinery.
You also defeated the purpose of the phen tube somewhat by taking it all out the first .450" of that hole.
If you use a 7/8 OD tube or rod for that matter ( they can be had cheap at Ebay sometimes ), you have phen wall on that tenon.

 

[cutter]

Does phenolic move

Don't over tighten it. Hand tight is plenty

 

[josie]

Use 7/8 OD phen and thread the bottom 1/2 portion .
You used .750" OD then bored it .
When that 3/8 10 grabbed the phen tube , only the epoxy was holding it. The clearance between the .450" deep tenon and tenon might have been enough to move it enough to wobble the joinery.
You also defeated the purpose of the phen tube somewhat by taking it all out the first .450" of that hole.
If you use a 7/8 OD tube or rod for that matter ( they can be had cheap at Ebay sometimes ), you have phen wall on that tenon.

I think I lost you with the bad description of my procedure. This is basically a .625" ID phenolic sleeve over a short tenon on the handle and a short tenon on the forearm connected with a screw. I said .750" earlier by mistake.

I beleive I have seen Dick Neighbors and Murray Tucker do it this way. It is also on DZ's website explaining a buzz ring. Just two tenons with a sleeve over both tenons.

Sorry, I don't know how to post pics.