Dominant Eye before any aiming system

[Dan White]

is there a reason you dont answer my question directly?

I don't understand. I've directly answered your question at least once. In this post you gave a thumbs up.

Dominant Eye before any aiming system

I got back into pool a little over a year ago and I felt I was progressing quickly, all of the sudden I seemed to hit a wall and my play became inconsistent, break & run 1 week, miss 3 ball in hands the next, during my stroke drill of up and down...

forums.azbilliards.com

I'll try to be as straight forward as humanly possible:

1. The ob/cb/shaft straight alignment looks straight and aligned when the cue is centered between my eyes just like your diagram shows. This is my personal vision center as it is defined.
2. I have found that half-ball cuts do not perform the same going left or right while shooting in my personal vision center.
3. I found an alternate head position in which half-ball hits do perform the same left or right, in addition to some other improved performance.

If you want more clarification you're going to have to ask a different question, I guess. It seem maybe you are assuming that if you find your VC that automatically means you will see left and right cuts equally (as I think Dave claims)?

 

[bbb]

I don't understand. I've directly answered your question at least once. In this post you gave a thumbs up.

Dominant Eye before any aiming system

I got back into pool a little over a year ago and I felt I was progressing quickly, all of the sudden I seemed to hit a wall and my play became inconsistent, break & run 1 week, miss 3 ball in hands the next, during my stroke drill of up and down...

forums.azbilliards.com

I'll try to be as straight forward as humanly possible:

1. The ob/cb/shaft straight alignment looks straight and aligned when the cue is centered between my eyes just like your diagram shows. This is my personal vision center as it is defined.
2. I have found that half-ball cuts do not perform the same going left or right while shooting in my personal vision center.
3. I found an alternate head position in which half-ball hits do perform the same left or right, in addition to some other improved performance.

If you want more clarification you're going to have to ask a different question, I guess. It seem maybe you are assuming that if you find your VC that automatically means you will see left and right cuts equally (as I think Dave claims)?

Thanks again dan for the reply
So center cue stick is where you see straight
But not where right and left cuts look equal,,,
Yes?
Where you see left and right cuts equal works better for your playing results
Yes?
Where is your head position
For this ?
In this position right and left cuts look equal but the balls that are in a straight line dont look straight
Yes?

 

[bbb]

I have my own eye issues due to whats called a phoria
Thats why i am pursuing this dan
Its not to annoy you

 

[Dan White]

Thanks again dan for the reply
So center cue stick is where you see straight
But not where right and left cuts look equal,,,
Yes?

Yes.

Where you see left and right cuts equal works better for your playing results
Yes?

Yes.

Where is your head position
For this ?

Inside corner of non-dominant eye.

In this position right and left cuts look equal but the balls that are in a straight line dont look straight
Yes?

Sort of. I can't give you a yes or no because the alternative to straight is crooked. Nothing looks crooked. It's just that the straight line passes along the side of my VC instead of under it. Think of it this way. Set up a straight alignment with the cue as in your video. Instead of using your VC move your head off slightly to the side. Everything still looks straight, just from the side. I went through this with PJ in an early post if you want to go back and read.

It seems to me that VC is a tool to get people who hold the cue crooked to straighten it out. That doesn't mean you can't have a straight set up and delivery from some other position, at least from my experience.

 

[Dan White]

I have my own eye issues due to whats called a phoria
Thats why i am pursuing this dan
Its not to annoy you

Not at all. Happy to discuss, even we're the only two still reading, ,lol.

I got lasik surgery almost 20 years ago for astigmatism in the right eye. I don't think that had an impact on my aiming, other than the obvious benefits.

 

[bbb]

Yes.


Yes.


Inside corner of non-dominant eye.


Sort of. I can't give you a yes or no because the alternative to straight is crooked. Nothing looks crooked. It's just that the straight line passes along the side of my VC instead of under it. Think of it this way. Set up a straight alignment with the cue as in your video. Instead of using your VC move your head off slightly to the side. Everything still looks straight, just from the side. I went through this with PJ in an early post if you want to go back and read.

It seems to me that VC is a tool to get people who hold the cue crooked to straighten it out. That doesn't mean you can't have a straight set up and delivery from some other position, at least from my experience.

Thanks for your replies and putting up with me…

 

[bbb]

When you shoot a long straight stop shot
you see it as a “parrallel “ straight line? Sort of?

 

[Dan White]

When you shoot a long straight stop shot
you see it as a “parrallel “ straight line? Sort of?

I understand what you are getting at, I think. If you want to play around with what I did for yourself I'd start with the half ball shots. ob at center table and cb at foot or head spot. Shoot at the half ball edge without regard to pocketing the ball and see what happens.

In thinking about this, I don't believe I concern myself with the attitude of the cue in my vision. I look at the ob/cb alignment with the pocket and get down on the shot, sliding to my left as I go down, slightly, to get my head in the right position. At this point the cue should be where it needs to be in order to hit the ob target with a straight delivery.

I'll pay closer attention to exactly what I am doing and report back if it is useful to you.

 

[sparkle84]

Most right-handers I've done VC with have theirs about halfway between their right eye and their nose--incredibly, students have had the same VC even before and after the catastrophic loss of one eye!

For some, they can make a lot of good cuts if the VC is in place, with less than ideal mechanics. It can put me off a bit myself if I forget and go back to under the chin--most people have neither pure binocular (chin) nor pure monocular (just beneath the eye) vision/VC.

I think of pool like baseball, my sighting is with one eye closer to the target, though I regard the target with both of my eyes at once.

Just curious but how many students have you had who've had catastrophic loss of one eye.

 

[Dan White]

When you shoot a long straight stop shot
you see it as a “parrallel “ straight line? Sort of?

OK I took another look at what I'm seeing. Not sure this helps as we are all different, but...

When I am in shooting position (left handed, left eye dominant) and I close my left eye the right eye sees the alignment as "straight" as VC recommends. If I open the left eye only it still appears straight but I am not looking down the barrel of the alignment. It is hard to tell if the shot looks on because I'm seeing it at a slight angle. You can probably do this same test and see what I mean.

In the end with both eyes open I have binocular vision and at that point it is hard to say what it looks like. I have the sensation that my right eye is doing more of the work and is a little "uncomfortable" if I can say that. That's partly what tells me I am in the right shooting position.

I know you might not have access but you might benefit from the laser line procedure I showed on youtube. It allows you to check various stroking methods to insure you are staying on line and what that looks and feels like.

 

[bbb]

I understand what you are getting at, I think. If you want to play around with what I did for yourself I'd start with the half ball shots. ob at center table and cb at foot or head spot. Shoot at the half ball edge without regard to pocketing the ball and see what happens.

In thinking about this, I don't believe I concern myself with the attitude of the cue in my vision. I look at the ob/cb alignment with the pocket and get down on the shot, sliding to my left as I go down, slightly, to get my head in the right position. At this point the cue should be where it needs to be in order to hit the ob target with a straight delivery.

I'll pay closer attention to exactly what I am doing and report back if it is useful to you.

thanks dan....

OK I took another look at what I'm seeing. Not sure this helps as we are all different, but...

When I am in shooting position (left handed, left eye dominant) and I close my left eye the right eye sees the alignment as "straight" as VC recommends. If I open the left eye only it still appears straight but I am not looking down the barrel of the alignment. It is hard to tell if the shot looks on because I'm seeing it at a slight angle. You can probably do this same test and see what I mean.

In the end with both eyes open I have binocular vision and at that point it is hard to say what it looks like. I have the sensation that my right eye is doing more of the work and is a little "uncomfortable" if I can say that. That's partly what tells me I am in the right shooting position.

I know you might not have access but you might benefit from the laser line procedure I showed on youtube. It allows you to check various stroking methods to insure you are staying on line and what that looks and feels like.

i just tried what you suggested
i am right handed left eye dominant
for me
when i close my right eye the balls look straight but my tip looks left of center
when i close my left eye the balls look angled in a line and my tip looks right of center
i need to to do the
"where do the cut angles look equal"
to be continued
thanks dan

 

[BRKNRUN]

Just curious but how many students have you had who've had catastrophic loss of one eye.

Man oh Man.....you guys never let one slide and call this guy to the mat on everything

 

[FranCrimi]

Players need to understand what a dominant eye is. It's the eye that grabs the visual information first. That's all it is. It is not necessarily the eye that sees most accurately. But here's the glitch: Even if your recessive eye sees the shot line more accurately, is it better to place your cue under your recessive eye? If you do, your dominant eye will still send the info to your brain sooner, so there will be visual conflicts, and often the possibility of your cue drifting towards your dominant eye without you even knowing it, upsetting your overall stance and alignment which you geared towards your recessive eye. Also, visual conflicts can cause eye fatigue and strain.

So is it worth it? My experience is to allow your cue to be placed somewhere under your dominant eye, depending on it's strength. If it's not that strong, you can place it closer to your nose. Then make aiming adjustments based on results you get with that position.

 

[sparkle84]

Man oh Man.....you guys never let one slide and call this guy to the mat on everything

Yeah, well, I actually let plenty of his nonsense go except when it comes to outright lies and/or fabrications.

 

[Dan White]

Players need to understand what a dominant eye is. It's the eye that grabs the visual information first. That's all it is. It is not necessarily the eye that sees most accurately. But here's the glitch: Even if your recessive eye sees the shot line more accurately, is it better to place your cue under your recessive eye? If you do, your dominant eye will still send the info to your brain sooner, so there will be visual conflicts, and often the possibility of your cue drifting towards your dominant eye without you even knowing it, upsetting your overall stance and alignment which you geared towards your recessive eye. Also, visual conflicts can cause eye fatigue and strain.

So is it worth it? My experience is to allow your cue to be placed somewhere under your dominant eye, depending on it's strength. If it's not that strong, you can place it closer to your nose. Then make aiming adjustments based on results you get with that position.

I've watched out for drifting back to the dominant eye since you mentioned it awhile back. I think that did happen a couple of times after layoffs but once I really locked in on what works for me that hasn't been a problem.

What do you say regarding not seeing left and right half-ball hits the same? The only thing that seemed to work was shifting my head over to wherever it needed to be to have the shot work consistently in both directions. Is this something you don't put a priority on?

 

[FranCrimi]

I've watched out for drifting back to the dominant eye since you mentioned it awhile back. I think that did happen a couple of times after layoffs but once I really locked in on what works for me that hasn't been a problem.

What do you say regarding not seeing left and right half-ball hits the same? The only thing that seemed to work was shifting my head over to wherever it needed to be to have the shot work consistently in both directions. Is this something you don't put a priority on?

I think it's easier to make tip placement adjustments rather than force your head into a position where your vision is in constant battle with itself. I have a strong dominant right eye, so with the cue under my right eye, I tend to see slightly left of center as center. Also, I would tend to put less right sidespin on the cue ball than I thought due to this issue of seeing center slightly on the left side. I fixed the problem with a simple tip placement adjustment. Since I did that, my eyes were less tired after playing long sessions and my cue placement was consistent with no drifting.

Also, as an instructor, I've had the benefit of observing hundreds and hundreds of players while working with them one-on-one, and seeing various issues of dominant eyes and aiming, and seeing what works and what doesn't work. One thing's for sure --- forcing your head position will bite you back over time. Players should try to work WITH their anatomy rather than against it.

 

[boogieman]

3. I found an alternate head position in which half-ball hits do perform the same left or right, in addition to some other improved performance.

Do you notice different head positions if it's cutting to the left or to the right?

For me I do. If I'm cutting a ball to the right I let my left eye dominate. If I'm cutting to the left I let my right eye dominate. It's a very small difference, likely 1/4" or so but that slight sighting difference gets rid of the optical illusions. I'm not the one to come up with this but small differences when you sight/aim the shot minimizes or eliminates the illusions.

This game is either therapy or it will cause one to need therapy!

 

[Dan White]

I think it's easier to make tip placement adjustments rather than force your head into a position where your vision is in constant battle with itself. I have a strong dominant right eye, so with the cue under my right eye, I tend to see slightly left of center as center. Also, I would tend to put less right sidespin on the cue ball than I thought due to this issue of seeing center slightly on the left side. I fixed the problem with a simple tip placement adjustment. Since I did that, my eyes were less tired after playing long sessions and my cue placement was consistent with no drifting.

Also, as an instructor, I've had the benefit of observing hundreds and hundreds of players while working with them one-on-one, and seeing various issues of dominant eyes and aiming, and seeing what works and what doesn't work. One thing's for sure --- forcing your head position will bite you back over time. Players should try to work WITH their anatomy rather than against it.

I don't generally play long enough sessions to notice eye strain, but I could imagine it. How do you resolve a problem where 1/2 ball hits don't work in both directions with your "natural" head position? It seems you would have to angle the cue differently depending on which direction you were shooting if you don't mess with your head position.

It's all confusing because every instructor seems to recommend something different re head position.

 

[Dan White]

Do you notice different head positions if it's cutting to the left or to the right?

For me I do. If I'm cutting a ball to the right I let my left eye dominate. If I'm cutting to the left I let my right eye dominate. It's a very small difference, likely 1/4" or so but that slight sighting difference gets rid of the optical illusions. I'm not the one to come up with this but small differences when you sight/aim the shot minimizes or eliminates the illusions.

This game is either therapy or it will cause one to need therapy!

I don't know how to let one or the other eye dominate. I just found a spot where they both work the same.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I don't know how to let one or the other eye dominate.

You can practice it. With both eyes open, point your index finger at something, looking straight along the finger at the target. Normally, you'd only see that one finger, but you can see both (without moving) if you try. When you can see both, notice which one is pointing at the target - if it's the left image your right eye is dominant; if it's the right image your left eye is dominant. Now move your hand until the finger that wasn't pointing at the target now does point at it - you're now using your other eye as your dominant one.

pj
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