don't play best game without gambling

I think the reason gambling sparks your game is because money represents time, work, basically life. So losing it basically respresents death. All to a lessor degree usually, but gambling involves life/death. What a great motivator!

Like fire, if used properly, it can make life nicer. Or...

Either way, YOU are the one deciding why and how you play. Not the money or the competition, just you. Try deciding to play well without gambling for a while and then discover a new dimension of personal power. Take the time and see what happens.

imho,

Jeff Livingston
 
Gambling is good:)

Gambling is good for your game. It will teach you to be a warrior and make the desire to win come more frequently. If two even players play, but one of them has been matching up daily gambling, feeling the pressure, he's obviously going to beat the other guy that plays even with him. A good top pro once told me, "It should be illegal for good players to be in a pool room playing for fun." I understand the point he was making. You don't have to bet arms and legs, just something to make you feel a little heat:)
 
hobokenapa said:
Money on it does nothing for me. My best game only comes out in tournament play. I would have far more focus in the Final of a tournament (singles or team), or in practice approaching a 50-ball straight ball run than $20 race-to-seven game. I often wondered if larger stakes would make a difference (race to seven for $1000) but I'm not convinced. I guess if you are money orientated person, or a natural born gambler it means more. I am neither.
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I think more money on it would do the trick for you in a gambling situation. I totally agree with you on the focus experienced in tournaments AND serious practice sessions in which you can keep some sort of score.
 
bruin70 said:
you're making it sound like gambling is the only way for you to take it seriously. well,,,that may be true FOR YOU. remember also that gambling is the de facto way all american(and you can throw in the filipinos) players grew up.

i'll tell you what,,,,,,,take two players of equal skill and equal potential, and have one hone his skills by gambling and the other by playing great players,,,and ten years later, i'll take the non gambler any day EXCEPT WHEN AND ONLY WHEN THERE'S GAMBLING.

and here's the kicker,,,if the non gambler has a calm unflappable personility, he will be able to gamble anyway AND with a better game, while the gambler will not have played anyone great to have learned from.
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I never said gambling was the only way to improve, but IMO it's the quickest most effective way. It's obvious you don't gamble otherwise I'm sure you'd see things a little differently. I was stuck at B level for 5 years at least then I started gambling, even taking matches I had little chance of winning just to make myself focus, after about a year I was an A+, my high run in straight pool went from 58 to 131, with many runs in the 80's and 90's along the way. The effect of gambling was obvious. Of course if you play great players your game also improve, but without the gambling or at least tournament play progress is generally slow for most players.
 
Tournament play and Gambling are two completley different things though aren't they? I mean, yeah you are putting you money up to compete, but you are competing against more than one person. You have to be on your p's and q's for more than one person. Just because you win a match, doesn't mean you get any money right away. I've seen guys take money gambling before no problem, but you get them in a tourney and they can't make the cut to save their life. :p
 
I think an individuals game improves more when they play a weaker player and give them weight rather than when they play a stronger player and take weight.

Thats what I like the most about the more seasoned players that shoot at my pool room. When they play someone that they know is playing more for the experience and to improve their game...they don't run all over you and take your money, they play for just enough so that you a feel the sting in wallet...but never an amount that will kill your spirits. It's almost like they want our game to improve more than they want the money.

When they give out obviously too much weight, they never think that its unfair for them...they just step up their game even more and get better. Thats how the guy I played got so good. He told me that when he grew up in the Philippines, priority was given to the players that were going to play for money over the ones just shooting for fun. He said he was playing for money even before he knew how to pocket balls. While we were haveing a smoke break (before I finally beat him in a set) he told me "No pain, no gain". And I thought-"what a corny saying". And he told me how he dished out a lot of cash when he was younger to the sharks in his hall in the Philippines because he didn't want to take any weight...then soon enough, he was the one taking the cash.

I view playing a better player as more of a lesson and an opportunity to see how they move around the table, what type of english to move the cb with, and most importantly when and how to play safe. At least that's how I see it. Like in my previous post...when I lose money to a better player at the pool hall, I like to think of it as "tuition".
 
32-n-d said:
I think an individuals game improves more when they play a weaker player and give them weight rather than when they play a stronger player and take weight. ...
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Total hogwash.
 
Funny how all the people who don't gamble can tell you that it doesn't help your game.

Do I hear rationalization for your fear?
 
Teacherman said:
Funny how all the people who don't gamble can tell you that it doesn't help your game.

Do I hear rationalization for your fear?
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wrong word....it's not a fear. it's having something better to do with their money. it's also not wanting to put in the hours to compete in that manner. it's also one's perspective of the value of money,,,ie, is a friendly game for $10 really gambling enough to take seriously?,,,,,,, or should it be $500.

and as i mentioned earlier...what's the gamble if everyone tries to make a game in their favor? i see this ALL the time with some very good players. isn't that why a lot of games never get made,,,because neither party could come to an "equitable" game(read that "equitable FOR THEM")? gamble is when you have a 50% or less chance to win. so if "the gamblers " posting here aren't doing that, then they're not gambling.
 
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I'm refering mainly to improving a players mental aspect of the game.
I neglected to mention that I'm at the point in my game where I'm trying to rid myself of all of my mental blocks and am speaking from my personal experience. I'll admit that my physical sense for the game improved more rapidly when I played better players...but once I figured out how to move the cb around, the amount I learned from better players started growing thin.

It wasn't until I started giving out weight that I felt another jump in my game. I felt it harder to concentrate when I played the individuals that I got "used to" losing to. My difference in concentration was like night and day...I know at least a few of you out there can relate. Almost like the difference between when I play one of my regular pool buddies and when you play a perfect stranger for the first time.

I've always felt that it was easier to lose concentration as an underdog compared to being the favorite-due to the fact that even with a spot, it is more acceptable for a weaker player to lose to a stronger one, even though the handicap should have taken care of that gap in ability.
 
32-n-d said:
I'm refering mainly to improving a players mental aspect of the game.
I neglected to mention that I'm at the point in my game where I'm trying to rid myself of all of my mental blocks and am speaking from my personal experience. I'll admit that my physical sense for the game improved more rapidly when I played better players...but once I figured out how to move the cb around, the amount I learned from better players started growing thin.

It wasn't until I started giving out weight that I felt another jump in my game. I felt it harder to concentrate when I played the individuals that I got "used to" losing to. My difference in concentration was like night and day...I know at least a few of you out there can relate. Almost like the difference between when I play one of my regular pool buddies and when you play a perfect stranger for the first time.

I've always felt that it was easier to lose concentration as an underdog compared to being the favorite-due to the fact that even with a spot, it is more acceptable for a weaker player to lose to a stronger one, even though the handicap should have taken care of that gap in ability.
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yeah,,,,that's what i've been saying. the gambling part,,,that's a mental thing. if one misses from lapse of concentration because the "gambling incentive" is not there,,,it's not that he can't make the shot, it's just a lapse in focus. gambling might make you focus, it didn't teach you the shot.

TO LEARN THE GAME,,,,that takes practice and playing better players, as you said.

so we're talking about two different aspects of improvement. i would rather play well and not gamble well(i just won't gamble in that case), than gamble well and not play well....oh well:):)
 
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bruin70 said:
wrong word....it's not a fear. it's having something better to do with their money...
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My word is just fine. You like your money too much to get better. You refuse to pay your dues. You refuse to get into the arena. Yet, you claim to know what it's like.

Maybe you should talk about the weather.
 
Teacherman said:
My word is just fine. You like your money too much to get better. You refuse to pay your dues. You refuse to get into the arena. Yet, you claim to know what it's like.

Maybe you should talk about the weather.
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"i like my money too much to get better." if that's not the quintessential bullshit response,,,,, you obviously fail to see that some don't need it to get good. ask mika about that.

i CLAIM to know what it's like???? what the frick are you reading!

here, Teach, just for you. maybe this will help.
http://www.weatherunderground.com/
 
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Words of Wisdom

I'm at the counter in Oakland ( The Rathole ) paying the time complaining about the guy slopping the 9 in for the cash. An old player named Dutch calls me over and says " What was he doing at the table?" If you didn't miss he could not have slopped in the 9 ball. He then gave me the greatest words of wisdom. He told me if I liked to gamble I should take myself to Tahoe or Reno. Only a fool would lose his money in a pool room! Why????? Because all you have to do is play weaker players than you. And all that takes is having the patience to wait for that person to show up.
The guys that make money at the racetrack are the ones who wait and bet on the race they really like their chances in. The don't go out and play all twelve races. That is for the people just out to have a good time and throw away some money.

But...........................if you want to play better you have to play people better than you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If that were not so anyone should be able to go get a stick, a table, some videos and books and become a world class player. Never has happened and never will.

Historically the better players played the weaker players cheap so they could learn. But in this game I never heard of anyone learning for free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Titanic Jerry
 
bruin70 said:
"i like my money too much to get better." if that's not the quintessential bullshit response,,,,, you obviously fail to see that some don't need it to get good. ask mika about that.
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Hey lemming, I don't think you'll find in my posts that I said gambling is the only way to get good.

What I said was you should talk of something about which you know.
 
i used to think i could only play well when i gambled. Playing for fun or something less than good stakes meant i wasnt going to be into the game, wasnt going to be focused because i had nothing to lose. What this did was basically stunt my pool growth, because did i ever practice? no...cuz i couldnt get into it cuz there was no money on it and i already had myself believing i coudlnt play with no money there.

Does gambling make you focus better, make you feel like youre playing youre best game? Yes for most people, the loss of money/chance to win money gives you a purpose and a motivator. But do I know lots of awful players who do nothing but gamble? yep, so obviously it doesnt make you a better player, or there guys would be at the us open.

That being said......i absolutely love to gamble on pool, not advocating you stop. I am saying I think it can hurt your game.....unless you can use gambling and the chance to win money as a motivation to practice more, so you can win more......cuz plain and simple, practice is the only way youre ever going to get as good as you can get.
If you need some other motivation, check out the book "pleasures of small motions", it really helped me grow as a pool player
 
I just want to know the name of one champion did not gamble ever. I am not talking about the hometown hero who sits and talks about the days when he beat everyone in the world but dosen't want to play anyone today. The problem with pool today is that everyone is so scared to put up the money that nobody gets any action. They all want to sit around and talk about how good they are and show everyone their new thousand dollar cue but when asked to play for a nickel they either have somewhere to go or their back hurts and they broke their pinky toe yesterday.
 
lcksmith said:
I just want to know the name of one champion did not gamble ever. .
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ralf souqet and thorsten hohman(sp)....................i could be wrong but i don't think either one gambled much if at all before they won the world championships.

VAP
 
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