If no ref or neutral party is watching the shot live, a slo-mo video is very helpful. The call is usually obvious in the video. If not, a neutral party or ref can be asked to make a call from the video, but this is usually unnecessary.
Double Hit or Not? You Make the Call.
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
If no ref or neutral party is watching the shot live, a slo-mo video is very helpful. The call is usually obvious in the video. If not, a neutral party or ref can be asked to make a call from the video, but this is usually unnecessary.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Those are things you understand, but I've known enough players who don't understand and will want to video everything and analyze it.
Do you really think the benefit outweighs the cost? No need to answer, we all know your stance. For me, it doesn't. Sure, maybe I 'catch' a foul that I may have missed otherwise. On the other hand, if I would have missed that it was a foul, was it egregious enough to call? I would rather miss a few fouls than be the guy who mistakenly goes to video even once. Allowing people to further slow down our game is in nobody's best interest.
Why don't you address this issue? You blow it off by saying things like, 'it only takes a quick look at the video', but that 'quick look' will take the same amount of time as it takes me to make three shots (a conservative average, I'm a fast player). Why would you want to promote this without acknowledging the downsides? That is basically the way of all of your content like this, which makes it hard to believe that you were ever an engineer.
Slo-mo video should be used only for suspect shots, and only when both players agree. Otherwise, a ref or neutral party needs to be asked to watch the shot, and both players need to agree to accept their call, even if it is wrong. There is much less chance of the call being wrong if slo-mo video is used instead.
These "rules" are in no official rule set I am aware of (WPA/BCA, CSI/BCAPL/USAPL, APA, VNEA, etc.), and for good reasons.
your right. but they are pool room rules that work between two players gambling. that we know are not about to let the other get away with anything.
bringing a camera out on shots is as bad as the old way of playing all ball fouls. or laying your stick on the table is a foul lining up a shot. it should be but not in the pool room.
tournaments with a ref. is a different game than most have to live with.
there is a place for both.
bringing a camera out on shots is as bad as the old way of playing all ball fouls. or laying your stick on the table is a foul lining up a shot. it should be but not in the pool room.
tournaments with a ref. is a different game than most have to live with.
there is a place for both.
I’ll echo what I said in FB. Looks like no foul to me. It appears to obey both tangent lines.
VNEA had a 45 degree rule for frozen-ball shots. They finally got rid of it a few years ago after I sent them this video:
you dont use it for frozen cueball shots. and allowing a push though is wrong also.
you need an objective minded ref. standing there each time it happens.
some rules although not totally correct for all situations can be made so that they can work for all parties.
and eliminate most disputes.
you need an objective minded ref. standing there each time it happens.
some rules although not totally correct for all situations can be made so that they can work for all parties.
and eliminate most disputes.
For the reasons why they are allowed in pool, see the frozen-ball fouls resource page or this video:
technically of course you are right . no argument about that.
but be gambling in a pool room and your opponent wont let you shoot a non frozen shot forward. and a frozen one you must shoot away from the object ball. you can argue all you want but wont win.
in a tournament as most things you use the written rules for, then you have to call a ref over. so that solves that.
but be gambling in a pool room and your opponent wont let you shoot a non frozen shot forward. and a frozen one you must shoot away from the object ball. you can argue all you want but wont win.
in a tournament as most things you use the written rules for, then you have to call a ref over. so that solves that.
The last thing anyone wants is to continue propagating the culture of pool being a haven for the willfully ignorant. The fear of people gaining knowledge is narcissistic in the sense that it threatens the ego of those that feel emotionally invested in the creation of their self image, which in many cases is based on mythology or the tribal mentality of a negatively polarized collective.
Telling people not to learn is a ridiculous thing to do.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Nobody is suggesting not learning. It is interesting to know, but it is intrusive to the game to allow a person to slow down the game for something that isn't obvious to a person watching.
We all know that there are players who deliberately slow games, this is another tool in their arsenal that they will use to delay, distract, and disrupt. At the very least, the power to use the technology cannot be controlled by the players without some checks and balances.
If a player chooses to go to replay, there should be a penalty if they are wrong, either loss of timeout or a ball in hand for their opponent. If there aren't consequences there will be people who abuse it.
ugh
Do you think it is possible that the 45 degree rule was misunderstood in the very beginning and that it really meant that you supposed to shoot the cue ball at a 45 degree angle away from the object ball instead of jacking up your cue at 45 degrees?? I never understood what jacking up 45 degrees accomplished.
Nope. The rule was always clear it could be 45° in any direction (left, right, or vertical).
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Please put a pin in this idea. I am going to present something that includes an automatic shot clock, and may help with this problem.
45 degrees left or right, but not jacked up, correct??