Dr. Dave ....

alphadog

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You have great videos on lots of subject matter. Do you have any video of shaft deflection upon cueball contact ? In my experience it is way easier to miscue living on the edge with low deflection shafts. Is there video evidence of this ?
 
alphadog said:
You have great videos on lots of subject matter. Do you have any video of shaft deflection upon cueball contact ? In my experience it is way easier to miscue living on the edge with low deflection shafts. Is there video evidence of this ?
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I don't know the answer, but here's a counter idea...

A higher deflection cue is angled farther from the actual CB path at contact, which means it's angled farther from perpendicular to the CB's surface. I'm guessing that might make miscuing somewhat easier with higher deflection cues, but I don't know which of these opposite effects would be greater.

I also suspect that they're small effects that don't matter much either way.

pj
chgo
 
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See the longer answer from http://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/cue/low-squirt section "Does an LD shaft allow me to put more spin on the cue ball?"

Here's the most relevant snippet:
With an LD shaft, to get the same amount of spin (i.e., the same effective tip offset), the actual tip offset will be slightly less than with a non-LD shaft. But, again, this difference is very slight in a comparison of typical LD vs. non-LD equipment. Also, if a shaft had much more endmass (much more than a slight amount more), you would be able to hit farther out on the CB, with a larger actual tip offset, to get the same effective tip offset (and spin) produced with the LD shaft. Therefore, an LD shaft cannot produce more spin; although, the aim and tip offset will be slightly different to get the same amount of spin.
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So, standard shaft needs greater contact point offset for same spin as low-deflection shaft, and standard shaft has a greater miscue limit than a low-deflection shaft. Max spin from both is the same.
 
TheRooster said:
See the longer answer from http://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/cue/low-squirt section "Does an LD shaft allow me to put more spin on the cue ball?"

Here's the most relevant snippet:


So, standard shaft needs greater contact point offset for same spin as low-deflection shaft, and standard shaft has a greater miscue limit than a low-deflection shaft. Max spin from both is the same.
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could someone explain this?
i did read the link but still am confused
 
I think the explanations used jargon many readers won’t understand, especially without diagrammatic illustrations.

How many readers comprehend what tip offset is? How many times does Dr. Dave refer to sidespin applications of
horizontal stroking as cue tip offset? You cannot explain what happens as well as you can see and experience it. That’s why Dave Alciatore is so highly regarded. Dr. Dave accompanies his explanations with the evidence you can easily see and better comprehend what he’s explaining. That guy really should be enshrined in every major pool room across America for his countless contributions to help understand the principles behind the game we all have come to love so dearly.
 
Sorry to be late to the party. It looks like you guys discovered most of the relevant resources already, but here is one that is even more pertinent to the discussion:


Here's the pertinent quote:

See: HSV B.47 – effect of shaft endmass and squirt on miscue limit. It appears that a cue with more endmass (a lot more in the video) allows greater tip offset. With more tip offset, you would expect to get more sidespin. You would also expect to get more squirt than you would get even with the same endmass. If you watch all of the shots in the video, you will see that the cue with the added endmass had much more squirt than the cue without the added endmass, much more than can be explained by a small difference in tip offset. Also, with more squirt comes less sidespin (for a given tip offset), because the effective offset is less. If you look at the stripe on the ball in the super-slow-motion clips, you will see that the CB actually has slightly more sidespin (spin per distance) with the low-squirt cue (due to a larger “effective tip offset”), even though the “actual tip offset” is slightly greater with the added-endmass cue!

For more info, see:
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dr_dave said:
Sorry to be late to the party. It looks like you guys discovered most of the relevant resources already, but here is one that is even more pertinent to the discussion:


Here's the pertinent quote:
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Dave, do you measure tip offset from the same viewpoint for both cues - i.e., centerball is on the line the CB will take (not parallel with the stick)?

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Dave, do you measure tip offset from the same viewpoint for both cues - i.e., centerball is on the line the CB will take (not parallel with the stick)?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

The “actual tip offset” is the measured relative to the cue direction, and the “effective tip offset” is measured relative to the CB direction. They are illustrated in Diagram 1 here:

“Pool Myths – Part 4: LD Shafts” (BD, September, 2017)​
 
alphadog said:
You have great videos on lots of subject matter. Do you have any video of shaft deflection upon cueball contact ? In my experience it is way easier to miscue living on the edge with low deflection shafts. Is there video evidence of this ?
Click to expand...
Google is your friend. Of course he has tons of information on this stuff.
 
FYI, due to the confusion in this thread, I've added the following to my LD shaft resource page:

See the illustrations below (the top one from Patrick Johnson). Because a shaft has endmass, the cue is not just pushing straight during an off-center hit. It also pushes sideways, creating squirt or CB deflection. For more information, see what causes squirt. All three shafts in the top illustration are creating the same net force vector (the combination of forward push and sideways push) and therefore the same amount of sidespin. The same can be said for the two shafts in the comparison in the bottom illustration (from “Pool Myths – Part 4: LD Shafts,” BD, September, 2017). The apparent (or “actual”) tip offset is different for each, but both shafts are creating the same “effective” tip offset at the miscue limit, and therefore the same amount of spin.

squirt pivot point effects




effective tip offset for LD vs. non-LD shafts
 
So here is a ponit to ponder, see if you follow me on this..

Using backhand English your tip off set is actually further from center then it actually appears?

I say that because your parallel line to center of the cueball has gotten wider.
 
alphadog said:
So here is a ponit to ponder, see if you follow me on this..

Using backhand English your tip off set is actually further from center then it actually appears?

I say that because your parallel line to center of the cueball has gotten wider.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter how you get to the desired line of aim. All that matters is the tip offset from center relative to the line of action of the cue at tip contact. It is also important that the line of action is correct to account for CB deflection.
 
I had similar question to the op. It appears to me that with Wood shaft, I could hit further from the center without misusing. I can easily be miscuing with Carbon Fiber. Also the tip softness or hardness plays a role too. Though by feelings, I have more confident with wood shaft than carbon fiber. This is why I love KielWood shafts and then Wood shaft. I prefer Solid shaft and not cored.
 
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