Draw and Follow Speed Positional Systems

Good stuff Colin. How I wish I had the time to work on this type of thing. When I do get a little time to play a few draw shots I just set up different distances between the balls and draw back one and then two diamonds. Then I base anything I come across as a variation of that. Your's sounds much better.

As far as The One's comments and playing your best pool when you don't think. I'm just not to sure about that. I guess when you are in the zone maybe, but I think most of us need to try to play the best we can when we are not in the zone since we aren't there very often. When I'm not thinking, I screw up a LOT.

I know that when things that I do practice come up, I realize it and it instills a lot of confidence. So I would think that all these analysis' and conclusions you come up with require hitting a lot of balls. In a way forcing you to practice specific things. So you end up with a lot of specific things to recognize while you are playing a match. I figure the more 'specific' things you recognize from your practice, the better.

I play mostly by feel. I wish more of the feel I use was feeling the repetition of practice. LOL

Cheers to "feeling the analysis".
 
CaptainJR said:
Good stuff Colin. How I wish I had the time to work on this type of thing. When I do get a little time to play a few draw shots I just set up different distances between the balls and draw back one and then two diamonds. Then I base anything I come across as a variation of that. Your's sounds much better.

As far as The One's comments and playing your best pool when you don't think. I'm just not to sure about that. I guess when you are in the zone maybe, but I think most of us need to try to play the best we can when we are not in the zone since we aren't there very often. When I'm not thinking, I screw up a LOT.

I know that when things that I do practice come up, I realize it and it instills a lot of confidence. So I would think that all these analysis' and conclusions you come up with require hitting a lot of balls. In a way forcing you to practice specific things. So you end up with a lot of specific things to recognize while you are playing a match. I figure the more 'specific' things you recognize from your practice, the better.

I play mostly by feel. I wish more of the feel I use was feeling the repetition of practice. LOL

Cheers to "feeling the analysis".
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I'm right with ya JR,
The best analysis or systematization is still not implemented well without the feel of the stroke speed, the point at which the tip hits the CB etc etc. Feel is such a huge part of the game and must be developed through lots of playing, such that our knowledge can be implemented.

Also like your comments about the 'unthinking' zone! For most of us, most the time the zone is something we're hoping to get into...especially in competition mode. So it's very handy to have some ways to analyze and predict the effects of shots when it just doesn't look as simple as it sometimes is for us when everything feels right.

Could a systematic approach prevent one from entering the zone? Perhaps so, but as I've suggested in this and other threads, I believe almost all great players have a great database of systematic guides that help them to predict guides...but most of them don't take the time and effort to try to lay them out in words or equations, or to categorize the variables and their interelationships, though they often have quite accurate insights into them all. It just takes some prompting to get it out of them.

Certainly a lot of pro players have flaws in their understanding of various variables and effects and could improve on certain shots with a better understanding of such factors. But what they can do well is make pots, get pretty good shape, read game strategy and execute well under pressure...and that's enough to make them competitive at that level.

Colin
 
Colin Colenso said:
Interesting to hear you prefer stunning back for many of these shots Ted.

Can you tell me if there is a range of shot where you may change to hitting low?...such as when CB is 2 foot away and you want to come back 2 feet.

Colin
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Yes, Colin, there is certainly a point where a standard draw stroke is preferred. I don't have formula I follow. For your two foot shot example, I'd probably use a soft draw stroke.

A lot has to do with how different cueballs, cloth and tables play. For example, a measle cueball is a lot easier to control using draw than a red circle. I don't know the actual weights, but the measle ball certainly plays heavier. The red circle can easily go out of control in Simonis 860, so stunning is particularly useful on that type setup. The downside of stunning on fast cloth is the cueball can significantly slide off track if cuing isn't very accurate.
 
Collin you are a TRUE student of the game and a great contributer to folks on here at AZ. I myself tend to run into difficulty when applying systems. The more I rely on them the more I loose my sence of feel and instincts. I think a good mix of both is the key...for me anyways. To be perfectly honest I don't think I use any systems.:eek:
 
Harvywallbanger said:
Collin you are a TRUE student of the game and a great contributer to folks on here at AZ. I myself tend to run into difficulty when applying systems. The more I rely on them the more I loose my sence of feel and instincts. I think a good mix of both is the key...for me anyways. To be perfectly honest I don't think I use any systems.:eek:
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Thanks HWB,
Regarding whether or not you use systems, let me give you a few examples of systems you are probably using now.

Predicting balls bouncing of the rails - you've learned the approximate rebound angles.
Stop shots and draw shots etc. - You've learned how the CB reacts when hit at various positions and speeds.
Pointing the cue / Aiming - Youve learner where to point the cue, perhaps which part of the OB you need to hit.

Even if we don't try to put such systems into more detailed and accurate mathematical formulas, they are systems none-the-less. They allow us to start to predict the results of our execution.

Systems can get bashed as being irrellevant or a waste of time. Surely some are irrellevant or downright incorrect. And most of them that work may only provide occassional benefits to a game. So the more little things you know, the better your whole game can be....so long as you're able to process such systems efficiently during play and not getted bogged down or distracted by them.

Colin
 
I would think that on the IPT cloth and tables where the OB might drift from specks on the cloth you would opt for the harder stroke.

Jake
 
Colin, how accurate are the IPT tables? Are they all level with good, consistent rails, etc. or are some sloped, crooked or whatever?

I ask because of my post on advocating slow hits: I was assuming that IPT equipment was superior to the average pool hall stuff. Bad equipment certainly changes the decision between hard and soft hits. Are the tables accurate enough so a slow roll always goes straight?

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Colin, how accurate are the IPT tables? Are they all level with good, consistent rails, etc. or are some sloped, crooked or whatever?

I ask because of my post on advocating slow hits: I was assuming that IPT equipment was superior to the average pool hall stuff. Bad equipment certainly changes the decision between hard and soft hits. Are the tables accurate enough so a slow roll always goes straight?

Jeff Livingston
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Hi Jeff, this is partly a respons to Jake's question as well.

The tables at the IPT were very level from what I saw.

The cloth does some weird things to the ball when it is just about to stop rolling, but I haven't seen shots that deviate on the nap at slow playing speeds. If you wanted to slow roll up against a ball for a safety you might want to hit it a little harder, but for 99% of slower shots in game play, I don't feel you'd have to change your shot based on a fear of balls hitting lumps.

Maybe some other players ran into a couple fo strange rolls, but I didn't see any. The one thing that nearly all players suffered from was adjusting for the sliding rails. The slide was severe. The best players managed to adjust the best I figure.

Having sliding rails kind of has a negative and a positive. It punishes the players who have great abilities on putting a lot of english on the ball to make better shape on shots...bringing them back to the field....but it also punishes players who fall out of line a little during a run out, as it is much harder to play yourself back into line by playing a shot requiring a lot of english.

Seems to me the one's that benefited most were those who rarely get out of position. Not so much the shot makers.

Players stuggled with kick shots, escaping snookers and coming off rails to bust up clusters.

Colin
 
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