Drawing the rock problems

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GlobalGamer

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I have this huge problem lately with trying to get a quick draw action out of the cueball with a slow stroke. A straight in shot hitting as low as possible on the cueball, with a slow stroke. I can set the shot up 10 times and i am able to get what i want out of it probably 8 out of 10 times.

The other two times result in either me miscueing or the cueball flying straight up in the air/at spectators etc.... has anyone else had this problem? If i were to rate my speed it would be a low B. Lately ive been starting to realize that these are the kind of things that are killing my game from getting any better. I want to fix it.The only thing is; I have no idea how.
 
GlobalGamer said:
I have this huge problem lately with trying to get a quick draw action out of the cueball with a slow stroke. A straight in shot hitting as low as possible on the cueball, with a slow stroke. I can set the shot up 10 times and i am able to get what i want out of it probably 8 out of 10 times.

The other two times result in either me miscueing or the cueball flying straight up in the air/at spectators etc.... has anyone else had this problem? If i were to rate my speed it would be a low B. Lately ive been starting to realize that these are the kind of things that are killing my game from getting any better. I want to fix it.The only thing is; I have no idea how.
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Are you using a 'pendulum' stroke or a piston type stroke?

If you can do it 5 or 6 times are you going after more of an effect or are you merely trying to duplicate what you have when these miscues happen?

I doubt that I will have an answer for you. I am just trying define the situation a bit better for those that might have an answer.

Good Luck with it.
 
GlobalGamer said:
I have this huge problem lately with trying to get a quick draw action out of the cueball with a slow stroke. A straight in shot hitting as low as possible on the cueball, with a slow stroke. I can set the shot up 10 times and i am able to get what i want out of it probably 8 out of 10 times.

The other two times result in either me miscueing or the cueball flying straight up in the air/at spectators etc.... has anyone else had this problem? If i were to rate my speed it would be a low B. Lately ive been starting to realize that these are the kind of things that are killing my game from getting any better. I want to fix it.The only thing is; I have no idea how.
Click to expand...

Focus on hitting the QB with the shoulder of the cue tip and not the center (dome) of the cue tip. This may help.

John
 
Obviously there is an arm drop and/or other miscue that you're scooping the ball off the table.

One Pocket's response seems a paradox because you are trying not to scoop the ball but he is correct.

The other diagnostic is whether you are using some kind of wrist snap/unusual action. If you take a "regular center ball stroke" but cue the ball lower and hit softly, you will get draw and not blast the ball into the air unless you are cueing too low.
 
GlobalGamer said:
I have this huge problem lately with trying to get a quick draw action out of the cueball with a slow stroke. A straight in shot hitting as low as possible on the cueball, with a slow stroke. I can set the shot up 10 times and i am able to get what i want out of it probably 8 out of 10 times.

The other two times result in either me miscueing or the cueball flying straight up in the air/at spectators etc.... has anyone else had this problem? If i were to rate my speed it would be a low B. Lately ive been starting to realize that these are the kind of things that are killing my game from getting any better. I want to fix it.The only thing is; I have no idea how.
Click to expand...

A lot of times, players try to level off their cue in mid-stroke when trying to execute a draw shot to avoid scraping the cloth. That usually results in one of two things: Either the cue ball doesn't draw back, or the cue ball jumps.

Keep the same cue stick angle of attack all the way through the stroke and allow it to scrape the cloth in the follow-through position. If you need to increase the angle, then do it in your setup, but don't change it in mid-stroke.
 
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GlobalGamer...8 out of 10 tries is VERY good. How far apart are CB & OB? The miscues are likely related to a tight grip and too fast of a backswing.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

GlobalGamer said:
I have this huge problem lately with trying to get a quick draw action out of the cueball with a slow stroke. A straight in shot hitting as low as possible on the cueball, with a slow stroke. I can set the shot up 10 times and i am able to get what i want out of it probably 8 out of 10 times.

The other two times result in either me miscueing or the cueball flying straight up in the air/at spectators etc.... has anyone else had this problem? If i were to rate my speed it would be a low B. Lately ive been starting to realize that these are the kind of things that are killing my game from getting any better. I want to fix it.The only thing is; I have no idea how.
Click to expand...
 
The failure incidents might be related to shortening up the follow-through.

If you normally follow-through to about 6 inches, when the stroke is forced to stop early, lots of little things can interfere causing a "scoop" stroke.
 
Simplest answer might be right in front of your ey....errr ferrule.....

I know with some tips I have a harder time slow/touch drawing the ball consistently than with others....

I'd likely use a striped ball or a training cueball and check to make sure I am indeed hitting where I think I am...

If that checks out I'd check the tip as it might have an issue with the shoulder not being firm and holding up at impact in one area....

If it looks like you are consistent in tip placement it's likely time to buy/borrow a video camera

food for thought,
Chris
 
The Renfro said:
Simplest answer might be right in front of your ey....errr ferrule.....

I know with some tips I have a harder time slow/touch drawing the ball consistently than with others....

I'd likely use a striped ball or a training cueball and check to make sure I am indeed hitting where I think I am...

If that checks out I'd check the tip as it might have an issue with the shoulder not being firm and holding up at impact in one area....

If it looks like you are consistent in tip placement it's likely time to buy/borrow a video camera

food for thought,
Chris
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Chris,

That's a good point.

I had a similiar situation when the first cool front came through in the fall.

I could not get control of my draw shots. One was fine. One was long. One was short. I changed shafts & TIP & the control was right there.

I know I would have gotten it under control 'eventually' but the change got it immediately.

Regards & Thanks again for the other help.
 
Several of the cameras can do video recording 60 frames per second. I used a Canon in one of my videos to demonstrate what happens to a cue ball with various sidespins (1:30, 3, 4:30, 6, 7:30, 9, 10:30).

Set the camera on the table, to the side to get a longer angle on the cue ball action. With the CB about a diamond or so from the OB, you can get some cool visual feedback.

At 60 fps, you can also see the chalk spraying away from the tip/ball contact.
 
The Renfro said:
Simplest answer might be right in front of your ey....errr ferrule.....

I know with some tips I have a harder time slow/touch drawing the ball consistently than with others....

I'd likely use a striped ball or a training cueball and check to make sure I am indeed hitting where I think I am...

If that checks out I'd check the tip as it might have an issue with the shoulder not being firm and holding up at impact in one area....

If it looks like you are consistent in tip placement it's likely time to buy/borrow a video camera

food for thought,
Chris
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Hogwash!!!!

A quality stroke can spin a ball even under ridiculously bad conditions

Take the gear babble somewhere else.. This portion of the site should be for the truth..
 
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You're probably tightening up your grip/arm muscles occasionally. Trying too hard causes you to lunge at the ball by moving your shoulder. You do all kinds of things to compensate when this happens and miscuing is the result.

Check out your tension level on your correct draw stroke and compare it to your bad one. You'll most likely find your arm/shoulder has moved out of its alignment and you spasmed out to compensate for the increased tension in your grip and arm.

Best,
Mike
 
Tom Simpson's elephant balls will help in the "striped ball to see where you're hitting" regard.

Mike Massey's power draw incorporates a balanced raised and lowered elbow move. Beware!
 
GlobalGamer said:
I can set the shot up 10 times and i am able to get what i want out of it probably 8 out of 10 times.

The other two times result in either me miscueing or the cueball flying straight up in the air/at spectators etc....
Click to expand...

You are contacting the cue ball too low. To find out where, take the 9 Ball and set the stripe horizontal. After the shot, look for the chalk mark. It should be on the stripe. Anything lower and you probably hit the table first, sending the cue ball into the air.

The reason is your delivery has an error. It might be your elbow dropping or your grip. Compare the finish positions of both between when you make the shot and when you send the Cue Ball into the air. One or both will be different, and that's what you need to work on. The more relaxed your arm and grip are, and the smoother your stroke is, the better your results will be.

A video camera and a tool like StrokeAnalyzer can make self diagnosis a lot easier. As Allan mentioned, a lot of point and shoot and DSLR cameras can record at 60 fps or more, which will allow you to clearly see the tip at contact and how your arm and cue moved to position it there.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
Tom Simpson's elephant balls will help in the "striped ball to see where you're hitting" regard.

Mike Massey's power draw incorporates a balanced raised and lowered elbow move. Beware!
Click to expand...

Matt,

Are you saying that Mr. Massey's elbow rasied an equal amount to that in which it dropped? If so I disagree. Sorry but I seem to be doing that a bit more with you lately. His elbow in no way raised up an equal amount to what it dropped. It certainly was not a 'balanced' amount.

Also, why do you say, 'Beware!'?

There is nothing wrong with the elbow dropping if done with a conducive grip & done correctly with intention, as Mr. Massey showed. I would say that it does not go well with a 'pendulum' stroke. But everyone does not use a true 'pendulum' stroke & everyone does not use a 'pendulum' finish.

Again, I'm sorry but to just say 'Beware!' with no qualification or explanation seems to be a bit irresponsible.

If you are in hurry for some reason, then why even make the post?

Sorry, but that's just my take on your post. I'll bet you were just in a hurry but I hope you see my point.

Best Regards,
 
Great answer

Mark Avlon said:
You are contacting the cue ball too low. To find out where, take the 9 Ball and set the stripe horizontal. After the shot, look for the chalk mark. It should be on the stripe. Anything lower and you probably hit the table first, sending the cue ball into the air.

The reason is your delivery has an error. It might be your elbow dropping or your grip. Compare the finish positions of both between when you make the shot and when you send the Cue Ball into the air. One or both will be different, and that's what you need to work on. The more relaxed your arm and grip are, and the smoother your stroke is, the better your results will be.

A video camera and a tool like StrokeAnalyzer can make self diagnosis a lot easier. As Allan mentioned, a lot of point and shoot and DSLR cameras can record at 60 fps or more, which will allow you to clearly see the tip at contact and how your arm and cue moved to position it there.
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Yes. I use a "stripe" to teach not just draw, but skid, stun and English as well. I agree with you and Renfro here.

It's also OK to look at the cue ball when you execute your business swing, to verify you're hitting where you planned to. I advise this as a practice exercise.

I also use a "small ball", an inch or so in diameter. I have students place the small ball about 2-3" farther from your bridge hand than the cue ball on a typical (average) draw shot. If you simply strike this small ball cleanly (with the minimum of force you need to draw), you have your draw stroke.

Having said all this, don't forget that you may just need to develop more consistency in your stroke...
 
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