Dumb people sometimes make the best players
- Thread starter whitewolf
- Start date
drivermaker said:Shall I take a guess as to what road you're on...or would you like to blurt it out. C'mon Mungy...emerge from that closet and set yourself free.
I am free... I chose to know as much about the physics as I could while realizing that knowing KE=1/2 M V ^2 doesn't mean a rats ass on the table. I try a bunch of things. Some work, some don't. So what? Only difference I can see is that I know what I'm trying to do, and why it should work. Sometimes the assumptions I make are wrong. Just like knowing the physics of shotmaking will never help anybody learn "pocket speed".
Why are you so bothered by people who want to know the "why"? You find ignorance an effective shield?
this arguement is kinda like driving a car................there's some that only know to push the gas pedal, and there's some that know what's going on underneath.
now,,,,,,,,,,,you only have to know that when you gas the pedal or turn the wheel etc etc, you can drive. but if something goes wrong, the guy who knows what's underneath will be better equipped to fix the problem.
drivemaker says what does, does. roach says here's why.
.............but you don't have to know what's under the hood to be a good driver. AND IF HE DID, a good driver isn't thinking about it while he's driving
now,,,,,,,,,,,you only have to know that when you gas the pedal or turn the wheel etc etc, you can drive. but if something goes wrong, the guy who knows what's underneath will be better equipped to fix the problem.
drivemaker says what does, does. roach says here's why.
.............but you don't have to know what's under the hood to be a good driver. AND IF HE DID, a good driver isn't thinking about it while he's driving
Last edited:
C.F. this thread on a scientific study that shows that smart people crumble under pressure.
PoolBum said:
It would depend on where you got your sampling. Any result can be found if you know what you want to find. A persons intelligence does not increase as a result of education, it is just fed. Intelligent people may however seek out education skewing the results of such a test. Even if all the intelligent people in the world got higher education and all the dumb people didn't, it would still not mean that education leads to intelligence, even though you would have 100% of the educated people smarter then the uneducated people.
drivermaker
Banned
Mungtor said:
Why are you so bothered by people who talk about "rotating centers" or a parallax view? You find standing on the outside looking in a better place to be?
bruin70 said:
Very good analogy with the car. And what you are saying is that there are also rules of physics that apply to driving a car, you don't need to be a rocket scientist.
I think what is said about billiards is that physics and geometry are more easily observed. Doesn't mean they need to be understood. Ability in billiards is accomplished through experience which is acquired through practice and applied teachings.
With regards to IQ levels and ability of play, well I think it's just hog wash. What is probably meant is that some peoples minds tend to be more analytical and text book driven while others are more to the point and experienced driven. An analytical mind is less likely able to get into a zone because the mind is too busy. This does not mean that an analytical thinker can not achieve high rankings in billiards, they only need to develop the SKILL required to enter into that state, "Zone", which is a different concept.
I think what can better be said is that in general things such as choking and the lack or the ability to concentrate are what prevents many from performing well, not IQ. These are learned through experiences in life beginning from our childhood. How we learned to deal with failures and successes are the enablers or the destructors to us. Most anyone can learn billiards to some level of making shots and eventually running out racks occasionally. Being consistent and performing well under pressure are what makes us or breaks us. I say forget IQ, for the most part everyone has the same basic intellectual foundation to play. We just do not have the same ability to keep our emotions in check, and that is what prevents us from advancing and winning. And this can be learned. (Billiards is very mental.)
I'm not an expert, just like to be practical. And it is emotions that get in the way as I see it.
It is integration, not "intelligence," that makes for a good shot. If you can put together what you know, right now at this shot, no matter what the situation is, you can play well. Learn the details but fail to integrate them and you've got a smarter, but still poor player.
And for those who use the term, "instinct" to describe the cause of good play, understand this: Instinct is a term mostly used to excuse and dismiss learned behavior. It is misused most often by those who haven't thought enough about the term and its meaning, or by those who deny a good player's work and practice and efforts, usually in order to not feel bad about their own laziness and abilities.
And finally, what is a "good" player? Think about that term, too, and maybe this whole thread is pointing in the wrong direction. Can you say, "happy shot?"
Jeff Livingston
And for those who use the term, "instinct" to describe the cause of good play, understand this: Instinct is a term mostly used to excuse and dismiss learned behavior. It is misused most often by those who haven't thought enough about the term and its meaning, or by those who deny a good player's work and practice and efforts, usually in order to not feel bad about their own laziness and abilities.
And finally, what is a "good" player? Think about that term, too, and maybe this whole thread is pointing in the wrong direction. Can you say, "happy shot?"
Jeff Livingston
chefjeff said:
Very good points. And I am sure when you say practice, you also include the mental aspects as well.
pete lafond said:
Of course. Integration, not just of a few pool fundamentals, but of everything one has experienced and knows, which includes:
physiology
psychology
philosophy
physics
sex
love
happiness
pain
business
sex
politics
etc.
The reason all of these had better be considered on THIS shot, is that they will all be manifested in this moment, not matter what one is doing. So, when doing a pool shot, proper integration will allow the shot to happen in a way that adds to one's happiness, regardless of the outcome on the table itself.
Yes, integration is made better by practicing it.
Jeff Livingston
drivermaker said:
Actually, I'm not bothered by any of it. I read some mention of it and, unlike physics, there was no good explanation of it. It doesn't really matter anyway, since no matter what system you use you still have to deliver the CB to the same point. If you can visualize it using astrology and tea leaves more power to you, it still leads to putting the CB in the same place.
(Besides, nobody actually talks about rotating centers or parallax views. They mention they exist, are the key to everything, and can't be described in writing. Hardly qualifies as talking about it)
So, while I might have been bothered by information that I can't get, why are you bothered when other people persue information that is freely available? You just tired of the college kids puttin' on airs?
drivermaker
Banned
Mungtor said:
Not necessarily...some are out of college. It has more to do with the phony intelluctualizing wannabes in general that never will be.
Pool player education
I am often amazed at the individuals who make comments such as yours regarding the education level of pool players. I for one graduated Magna Cum Laude with a degree in Business Management.....Frank Alvarez is a published auther along with many other players. The worse part is that anyone who believes that a piece of paper gives you knowledge has passed lifes tidbits of instruction.
I am often amazed at the individuals who make comments such as yours regarding the education level of pool players. I for one graduated Magna Cum Laude with a degree in Business Management.....Frank Alvarez is a published auther along with many other players. The worse part is that anyone who believes that a piece of paper gives you knowledge has passed lifes tidbits of instruction.
Last edited:
macguy said:
The studies I'm referring to were done by the American Psychological Association. I wasn't thinking so much that a higher level of education would cause greater intelligence so much as be evidence for it, which is what the studies suggest. In other words, in the general case a person's level of education attained does tell you something about their level of intelligence.
PoolBum said:
That is what I said, they sampled a certain group and got a result with no meaning. I would say they got the result they wanted. All left handed people are smart and all right handed people are dumb. How do I know, I once met a left handed person and he was smart and I also met a right handed person and he was dumb so this must be the case and I need not look any farther, besides, I am left handed. Economics would have more to do with who get advanced education then intelligence, so we must conclude, people who come from money are smarter then those born into a poor background. All this is bogus including the study you cited.
Last edited:
macguy said:
This discussion is something I've always been interested in....I agree that any intelligence test has got to have some validity to it, which takes into account what the questions are.....Obviously if you ask questions made up from people of "privilege" and pose them to people who live in the ghetto, how valid can that be to measure "intelligence"? Anyway, what is your definition of "smart" ? We all know people who are "smart" at so many different things....but in other things the same people are not so "smart"....Are you referring to "book smart" when you say a person is smart? For me, a person is smart who uses his brain to solve and make things better for himself and maybe others........
PoolBum said:
All it's saying is that there's a positive correlation between highly educated people and the average IQ of highly educated people. That makes sense. You can't have 80 IQ and expect to do well in academics.
It doesn't say that all educated people are smarter. Different people apply their efforts differently. From observation of his play, I would say Efren Reyes has a higher than average IQ.
Last edited: