thefreethinker3
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Hi guys, I would just like to ask- what makes Efren Reyes a different/amazing billiard player? I happened to watch his clips and can't seem to figure out his style.
Thanks
Thanks
Efren Reyes
- Thread starter thefreethinker3
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Efren learned how to play pool under the worst conditions imaginable in the Philippines. The tables were soaking wet from humidity; many places didn't have windows. The spectators would stand just a few feet from the table, shouting, and barely giving the players enough room to move. The equipment was sub-par. It was survival of the fittest there. He learned how to master spin in those horrible conditions. That was quite a feat on those wet tables.
When he finally started to travel, the conditions in the western countries were so easy for him, it was like picking cherries off a tree.
I realize that doesn't tell you much about his particular style, but the end result is his ability to hit the ball relatively softly and still make it travel to wherever he wants on the table. This was a necessity back when he played on wet tables.
When he finally started to travel, the conditions in the western countries were so easy for him, it was like picking cherries off a tree.
I realize that doesn't tell you much about his particular style, but the end result is his ability to hit the ball relatively softly and still make it travel to wherever he wants on the table. This was a necessity back when he played on wet tables.
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His style has very little to do with it. Actually his style stinks. He is just smarter than the rest of us. Study him and learn, maybe you will be even better.
Notice something right. Expect improvement. Demand excellence.
Jim S.
Notice something right. Expect improvement. Demand excellence.
Jim S.
thefreethinker3
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Oh! That pretty much explains it. It's not because of his style but the conditions he's been through.. Well congratulations to him for being so skilled, he definitely deserves all the success that he has now.
If those are the playing conditions in the Philippines, I'll be expecting more amazing billiard players from that country from now on
thefreethinker3
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Worth a shot but I doubt it, I just play billiards for fun
It still amazes me though just to watch his videos haha.Efren is the King.
yes he may be among the best ever
but would any instructor advocate trying to emulate his stroke??
im not an instructor so i hope i dont get scolded for expressing my opinion
efren and cj wiley for example were able to master an idiosincratic( sp) way to play
it worked for them
great
in my humble opinion
its not a template to model your game for 90% of the players
what do the instructors think of my opinion???
Oh! That pretty much explains it. It's not because of his style but the conditions he's been through.. Well congratulations to him for being so skilled, he definitely deserves all the success that he has now.
If those are the playing conditions in the Philippines, I'll be expecting more amazing billiard players from that country from now on
Those were the playing conditions there 30 years ago. I don't know what the playing conditions are now.
thefreethinker3
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thefreethinker3
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I've sort of researched about that, playing conditions are still the same for some places especially the ones affected by poverty. Though there are places like malls which cater good pool tables.
I've sort of researched about that, playing conditions are still the same for some places especially the ones affected by poverty. Though there are places like malls which cater good pool tables.
There already are several great players from that country. Check out Ronnie Arcano, Rodolfo Luat, Dennis Orcollo, and Francisco Bustamante. Also, Rubilen Amit is a strong woman player. The Philippines is known for producing formidable players.
I wouldn't rule out the style of play of the Filipino players as a contributing factor to their excellence. It's indeed possible that their continuous loop stroke is a strong contributing factor to their excellent stroke timing, desired cue angle of attack and accurate tip placement.
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it's very difficult to understand, because you can't really "see it"
Efren, Bustemante especially learned to play so well because the had to. Human beings learn to adapt and excel sometimes out of pure necessity.
Every pool player that is a Champion played a different style. There has never been any two play the same so you can't teach this game (except to a beginner/intermediate) in a "cookie cutter" fashion. The most important elements have to be identified and personified, there's no two ways about it.
I've played Efren and Bustemante many times. We've played tournament matches and we've gambled for big money, many hours. When I try to explain what they do, it's very difficult to understand, because you can't really "see it", but you can "feel it".
The human eyes are fooled by what they do and no one's ever been able to pick it up on camera either, at least from what I've seen. I've heard many "try" to explain, but Efren would laugh at them if they told him what "he was doing". I've started to describe it to the best of my ability, but something stopped me, because no one would believe it anyway......'The Game will always be the Teacher' :wink:
Efren, Bustemante especially learned to play so well because the had to. Human beings learn to adapt and excel sometimes out of pure necessity.
Every pool player that is a Champion played a different style. There has never been any two play the same so you can't teach this game (except to a beginner/intermediate) in a "cookie cutter" fashion. The most important elements have to be identified and personified, there's no two ways about it.
I've played Efren and Bustemante many times. We've played tournament matches and we've gambled for big money, many hours. When I try to explain what they do, it's very difficult to understand, because you can't really "see it", but you can "feel it".
The human eyes are fooled by what they do and no one's ever been able to pick it up on camera either, at least from what I've seen. I've heard many "try" to explain, but Efren would laugh at them if they told him what "he was doing". I've started to describe it to the best of my ability, but something stopped me, because no one would believe it anyway......'The Game will always be the Teacher' :wink:
I saw an interview of Efren a few months back. It was quite telling. My favorite comment went something like I like play bad players. Because when they make an amazing shot I have to figure out how did theyd that. I love doing just that at home. I've learned to kick, bank and a little mase now.
thefreethinker3
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Very well explained about the continuous loop stroke. I will do that
Yes, indeed they do produce formidable players! I've seen Django Bustamante in action too, very skilled! Time to check out the others thefreethinker3
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Hello there mr. Cj Willey, I guess what you mean to say is that their aura when playing is different compared to other billiard players? Maybe because of the experience they've build up through years of playing? I'm amazed how these players have reached their level of competitiveness, and even you sir. Thank you for enlightening men with regards to them players. Truly, a high level of skill requires description on how it is felt and not seen.
thefreethinker3
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Oh, he pushed himself to learn amazing shots that his opponents made. Amazing!
CJ, I'd be very interested to hear more of your description of what Efren and Bustamante are doing. Of course we can see them perform, but as you say what they are doing is not really something you can see, so how would you describe what they do that perhaps only another great player could understand well?
There's two trains of thought when playing pocket billiard games.
We all play a different type game than what's commonly understood. The issue to understanding is the experience it takes to get a "referential index" in which to compare ideas. I've read a lot of "opinions" on this Forum and they are based on things that "make sense", however, are not accurate to describe what the "best of the best" actually are doing.
Here's something I wrote earlier to describe one of these aspects I'm referring to:
There's two trains of thought when playing pocket billiard games. One is to let the table dictate what shot you hit. That would mean you look at the shot and it tells you what speed, what spin, and what angle (is the best to get on your next shot).
The other way is how I play and you'll notice many other top players this in their own individual style.
Develop a shot that enables you to maximize the pocket size. This means you line up to undercut the shot slightly (aim in the pocket, but on the "undercut side") and then either spin it, or deflect it to overcut{side} slightly.
Earl spins to accomplish this and I deflect it to "throw it in the pocket." I want to look at the table situation and MAKE my shot fit the scenario. I know this is not the "conventional" way of playing, but it's very effective and works great on tight, worn equipment. On new, fast cloth you shouldn't hit the shots quite as firm.
My preference is to deflect the ball slightly{aligning}with a "Touch" of Inside - I can get a more consistent result by adjusting my speed, rather than my "aim". Then you can start playing a consistent angle as well. This means you're controlling the angle, the speed, and the spin according to your preference, not because the "table tells you the shot."
Sounds backwards, however, think about it, how well could you play if you hit the same speed, {same}place on the cue ball, and{same} angle{most}every time?
If I undercut a shot I hit it firmer and accelerate more next time. If you miss the same shot hitting a "slow spin shot," you don't really know what happened if you miss. There's more calulations, so therefore more variables to deal with.
This doesn't enable you to play a lot better, but it does enable you to know why you don't make shots. It's vitally important, when you don't make one to immediately know what happened exactly!
If you make an adjustment that's incorrect it could throw you off temporately enough to lose a whole match or gambling set. The amount of money involved in matches I've played prohibited this type of guessing. I had to KNOW!
When you spin the ball or try to hit center and miss there's a lot more variatables and it's difficult to know and adjust for "misses". This effects your ability to maximize "margin of error."
"The difference between an amateur and a professional is an amateur will practice until they CAN make shots and a professional will practice until they CAN'T miss shots." CJ Wiley
We all play a different type game than what's commonly understood. The issue to understanding is the experience it takes to get a "referential index" in which to compare ideas. I've read a lot of "opinions" on this Forum and they are based on things that "make sense", however, are not accurate to describe what the "best of the best" actually are doing.
Here's something I wrote earlier to describe one of these aspects I'm referring to:
There's two trains of thought when playing pocket billiard games. One is to let the table dictate what shot you hit. That would mean you look at the shot and it tells you what speed, what spin, and what angle (is the best to get on your next shot).
The other way is how I play and you'll notice many other top players this in their own individual style.
Develop a shot that enables you to maximize the pocket size. This means you line up to undercut the shot slightly (aim in the pocket, but on the "undercut side") and then either spin it, or deflect it to overcut{side} slightly.
Earl spins to accomplish this and I deflect it to "throw it in the pocket." I want to look at the table situation and MAKE my shot fit the scenario. I know this is not the "conventional" way of playing, but it's very effective and works great on tight, worn equipment. On new, fast cloth you shouldn't hit the shots quite as firm.
My preference is to deflect the ball slightly{aligning}with a "Touch" of Inside - I can get a more consistent result by adjusting my speed, rather than my "aim". Then you can start playing a consistent angle as well. This means you're controlling the angle, the speed, and the spin according to your preference, not because the "table tells you the shot."
Sounds backwards, however, think about it, how well could you play if you hit the same speed, {same}place on the cue ball, and{same} angle{most}every time?
If I undercut a shot I hit it firmer and accelerate more next time. If you miss the same shot hitting a "slow spin shot," you don't really know what happened if you miss. There's more calulations, so therefore more variables to deal with.
This doesn't enable you to play a lot better, but it does enable you to know why you don't make shots. It's vitally important, when you don't make one to immediately know what happened exactly!
If you make an adjustment that's incorrect it could throw you off temporately enough to lose a whole match or gambling set. The amount of money involved in matches I've played prohibited this type of guessing. I had to KNOW!
When you spin the ball or try to hit center and miss there's a lot more variatables and it's difficult to know and adjust for "misses". This effects your ability to maximize "margin of error."
"The difference between an amateur and a professional is an amateur will practice until they CAN make shots and a professional will practice until they CAN'T miss shots." CJ Wiley
i think i heard him say that in an interview, that he learned more from "bad players" because they fluke a lot of shots.
i believed what made him great is he realized that fluke shots can be repeated while majority of us just laugh at it.