Efren's infamous Z kick (clip)
- Thread starter Cardinal_Syn
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Cardinal_Syn said:
4 entries found for infamous.
in·fa·mous Audio pronunciation of "infamous" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nf-ms)
adj.
1. Having an exceedingly bad reputation; notorious.
2. Causing or deserving infamy; heinous: an infamous deed.
3. Law.
1. Punishable by severe measures, such as death, long imprisonment, or loss of civil rights.
2. Convicted of a crime, such as treason or felony, that carries such a pun
Cardinal_Syn said:
Don't get me wrong, this is an awefully entertaining shot but this has to be the most celebrated lucky-roll in pool history! I'd gladly gamble 3:1 with Efren all day on this shot!
Jude Rosenstock said:
Well, if it was a percentage shot, we probably wouldn't remember it at all now would we? The thing is Efren has a 100% score on this particular shot, so he doesn't need to gamble with anyone for it. How could this be considered one of the greatest shots ever made, if there wasn't a (high) risk of missing?
Jude Rosenstock said:
Jude,
3:1??!! What do you put your chances of being hit by lightning tonight, like 30 or 40 to 1?
For those who don't know, Jude once worked as an actuary, but had to quit. He was genuinely surprised whenever his clients survived a harrowing week of crossing roads and running with scissors. One of them actually went skiing, came home alive, and Jude forever hung up his odds-making hat at this truly improbable event.
All kidding aside, I of course agree with Jude. This is nothing more than a lucky roll.
- Steve
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Steve Lipsky said:Jude,
3:1??!! What do you put your chances of being hit by lightning tonight, like 30 or 40 to 1?
For those who don't know, Jude once worked as an actuary, but had to quit. He was genuinely surprised whenever his clients survived a harrowing week of crossing roads and running with scissors. One of them actually went skiing, came home alive, and Jude forever hung up his odds-making hat at this truly improbable event.
All kidding aside, I of course agree with Jude. This is nothing more than a lucky roll.
- Steve
Definitely a good roll but it pays to practice kicking to the center of the end rails
Eric
pharaoh68
Banned
Myself and three friends had a long and heated dispute one night about the odds of making this shot. Here was how it went:
Friend #1: "Efren would make the shot 30 to 40 times out of a hundred!" (He was out of his mind!)
Friend #2: "I'd say 20 out of a hundred but not 1 out of 5!" (As strange as this sounds, I actually know what he means.)
Friend #3: "Maybe 10 or 15." (but he doesn't know much about pool.)
Me: "Maybe 5! 6 tops but no more! Its a luck shot. He played the hit and not the pocket and he just plain got lucky!!!"
Ironically, we all tried about fifteen times or so each. Only one of us hit it in the right sopt to make it stay on the rail ...but he didn't pocket the ball!
BOTTOM LINE: One of the greatest shots of all time, but lucky as hell!!!
Friend #1: "Efren would make the shot 30 to 40 times out of a hundred!" (He was out of his mind!)
Friend #2: "I'd say 20 out of a hundred but not 1 out of 5!" (As strange as this sounds, I actually know what he means.)
Friend #3: "Maybe 10 or 15." (but he doesn't know much about pool.)
Me: "Maybe 5! 6 tops but no more! Its a luck shot. He played the hit and not the pocket and he just plain got lucky!!!"
Ironically, we all tried about fifteen times or so each. Only one of us hit it in the right sopt to make it stay on the rail ...but he didn't pocket the ball!
BOTTOM LINE: One of the greatest shots of all time, but lucky as hell!!!
pharaoh68 said:
I agree it was very lucky, but very lucky for Reyes and very lucky for anyone is a little different. He probably was trying to just barely miss it and hit behind it freezing the cue ball on contact sending the object ball one rail and down table. I bet he could consistently hit on the "correct side" of the ball, and dialed in maybe 1 out of 10 is possible for him, but 1 out of 20 is more likely as you say. Hitting it on the top might lead to a scratch. Yes, he got very lucky, but some people are lucky to just hit it, some people are lucky to hit the proper side, he was just lucky to hit the exact spot to make it on the proper side...
At least that is how I look at it..
Kelly
He definitely got a roll but he did have to shoot it didn't he? One important question to ask is, how many times have you seen Earl walk up to his opponent right after said opponent wins the match and he not only shakes his hand but he raises it for victory? I guess what I'm trying to say is that Earl has learned to respect Efrens whole game, not just the lucky rolls.
Keep in mind, if it weren't for Efren's very unlucky roll pocketing the 8 on his safety shot, Earl should have been the one shooting that shot. Basically, Earl got a lucky roll...then Efren a got lucky roll, so it all cancelled out. Earl should have lost the rack either way.Rickw said:
I'm positive Earl would have reacted very differently if he was the one that shot the safety that put Efren behind the 6 ball.
mapman72
New member
Jude Rosenstock said:
I couldn't disagree with this statement more. The percentages of making the shot do not mean that this is a "lucky roll". Efren was given one opportunity to make this incredible shot, with the score tied at 12-12. He used his knowledge and skill to try a miraculous shot and he made the ball. How is that lucky? It doesn't matter if he shoots that shot a million more times and doesn't make it again, it only matters that at that particular moment in time, Efren hit the ball exactly perfect and that's what this game is about. For the % people out there, what making % is adequate for a shot to be considered skillfull and not lucky? I just don't understand this logic.
I've got to confess, I've never understood the hype surrounding this shot. You hear so much about how this is the "greatest shot ever". Yes, it is a very, very good shot. But IMHO, no way is it the greatest shot ever. I don't think I would even put it in the top 10 greatest shots I've ever seen.
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For a hill-hill match, I think it was.JLW said:
Just like Thompson's homerun. The implication of that HR made it the Shot Heard Around the World.
mapman72 said:
Hey Map... I was sorry to hear you didn't make it into the 14.1 event. I was pulling for you!
To the issue at hand, I don't think a shot can be considered great (or even anything other than lucky) if the odds of making it are so low. Take a rank beginner who plays a tough cut 3 rails with inside english. In 30 attempts, he makes it on his 3rd and his 14th. Can you legitimately say those two shots were anything other than lucky? Do you believe that on those two attempts, he simply "concentrated harder"? I think the only obvious conclusion is that he really doesn't know the exact spot to hit, and is to some extent guessing. He happened to guess right twice out of 30. If I were playing him when he made it, I'd say "nice shot" to be polite, but inside, I'd be thinking that I got very unlucky that he happened to make a shot so far outside his range while playing me.
And this kick, in my opinion of course, is outside of Efren's range. He might play the same shot the next day and miss the entire ball. If someone doubts this, think of how many times you've seen top pros miss fairly standard kicks - to the wrong side of a ball. Might not be many, but it happens. And that's on standard kicks. This kick happens to be probably the most awkward available on a pool table. Players will do anything to avoid this pattern - if you see someone kicking like this, you know he's in a bad spot. Especially since the kick-safe options from this path are so limited. It's also a shot that even top players don't have a great frame of reference on. How many times do you play this, and as such, why would you bother practicing it very much? Especially since differences in tables will dramatically affect a shot as awkward as this.
I can't claim to know what's in Efren's head. But the next time someone sees him, ask him to gamble on the shot. See what he asks for. That should put you in the ballpark of what kind of an underdog he sees himself as.
- Steve
PlynSets said:
I actually think the shot goes in easier with it off the rail 1 inch.
It may have been a lucky shot, but I wouldn't bet against Efren making a good hit on the right side of the ball and if you do that you will make the ball every so often.
How many times has he been in this situation and loss? I see guys make miracle shots in the local pool room every day, so why shouldn't it happen to the pros once in a while.
There can be no denying that Efren's classic shot had a significant luck factor. He hit a good shot in the clutch and got a great result. And so it was with golf's three most improbable shots that led to major championships: 1) Larry Mize's chip at the 1987 Masters, 2) Shaun Micheel's iron shot on the 72nd hole that won the PGA, and 3) Tiger Woods' chip that turned the tide of the 2005 Masters. Was Jerry West's 50-foot heave in the 1973 NBA finals that forced overtime pure skill or was there a luck factor?
So many of sports' greatest acvhievements involved the luck factor, but the common ingredient in all these achievements is that a competitor did something very good when everything was riding on it.
It is the criticality of the moment that turns very good into great or legendary. Efren's shot came in the double hill rack of the final of a major tournament against a living legend.
When a sports fan speaks of the greatest shot or game or sports accomplishment they have witnessed, they usually speak of the moments that electrified them the most, the accomplishments that stirred their greatest emotions.
If a shot's greatness is measured in terms of the emotions it stirred, Efren's was, indeed, the greatest shot of the nine ball era.
So many of sports' greatest acvhievements involved the luck factor, but the common ingredient in all these achievements is that a competitor did something very good when everything was riding on it.
It is the criticality of the moment that turns very good into great or legendary. Efren's shot came in the double hill rack of the final of a major tournament against a living legend.
When a sports fan speaks of the greatest shot or game or sports accomplishment they have witnessed, they usually speak of the moments that electrified them the most, the accomplishments that stirred their greatest emotions.
If a shot's greatness is measured in terms of the emotions it stirred, Efren's was, indeed, the greatest shot of the nine ball era.
Was that the finals? And I agree with whoever said something like..."how can you call a shot great if the odds aren't against you?"
1. Lucky shots are when you pocket a ball in a manner that you did not want.
2. Great shots are when you pocket a ball in the manner you tried. No matter what the odds are.
1. Lucky shots are when you pocket a ball in a manner that you did not want.
2. Great shots are when you pocket a ball in the manner you tried. No matter what the odds are.