Eliminating Ball in Hand

BeiberLvr

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let's get rid of it. It makes the game too easy, and it's not terribly difficult to obtain.

- Players can still play safeties, but they wouldn't get ball in hand for a missed kick.

- The 3 foul rule would still exist, so players would be forced to make a legal hit.

- Obviously, there would need to be ball in hand on a scratch, but it would be behind the line. With the lowest ball being spotted if it's also behind the line.
 
Getting rid of BIH is not the solution.

What if I play a lock up safety at the head rail of the table and my opponent kicks and misses. I would be rewarded with BIH behind the line and have to shoot two table lengths to make contact on the ball. If I miss, we are both on 1 foul. Then it will be a race to see who can hit the ball two table lengths away.

Edit -

If we are talking 9/10 ball. The three foul rule is good only if the result is not a loss for the first player on 3 fouls. A rerack would be a better option. If my opponent fouls by not hitting an object ball, not hitting a rail after contact, or scratches; I would like to be rewarded with some means of a high percentage shot or safety. I don't want to be punished and force them to foul out or attempt to kick multiple rails from behind the head string.
 
Last edited:
BeiberLvr said:
Let's get rid of it. It makes the game too easy, and it's not terribly difficult to obtain.

- Players can still play safeties, but they wouldn't get ball in hand for a missed kick.

- The 3 foul rule would still exist, so players would be forced to make a legal hit.

- Obviously, there would need to be ball in hand on a scratch, but it would be behind the line. With the lowest ball being spotted if it's also behind the line.
Click to expand...

You think that would make the game better until there are people routinely fouling because the kitchen-shot has a low probability. How about this - invent a new game and call it something else.
 
Nine Ball????

Why the three foul rule?:scratchhead:

Worst rule ever in nine ball.:frown:

Should have to make the nine ball to win....:thumbup:
 
Well, you don't need to change the rules or invent a new game if you don't like BIH...

If one doesn't like the Texas express rules nineball, one can always play the maybe more traditional two-foul nineball, meaning simply that you are allowed to play a push-out in any situation in the game, not only after the break. This effectively takes out BIH situations, even though BIH is still there in principle.

Same rules could be used for 10 ball with no problem.

But then again, Texas express didn't become the game of choice for most of the world by chance. There are reasons why people like it that way.
 
Makes the game easier eh?

Obviously you have never seen me with a ball in hand, set up a shot in the side to cheat the pocket a bit to get shape and totally miss.

Got great shape tho.
 
- So if I safe, and they miss their kick, I just play it wherever it ends up.

- What if it ends up behind another ball, screwing me over?
In fact, what if the other guy intentionally puts the cue ball there, or puts it somewhere where
the shot is unmakeable?

- Well then maybe we make a rule where I can pass it back, if I don't like where it ended up.

- Congratulations, you just reinvented 2-foul rollout 9ball?? :grin:


Bear in mind that Ball in Hand was invented to solve a specific problem.
The problem being that 9-ball is a slower game under older 2-foul rules.
They were invented for a specific tournament or maybe a specific tour.

And yet, decades later, Texas Express rules are still popular
long after that tournament or tour died out.
So maybe ball in hand isn't a problem that anyone wants solved?
 
BeiberLvr said:
Let's get rid of it. It makes the game too easy, and it's not terribly difficult to obtain.

- Players can still play safeties, but they wouldn't get ball in hand for a missed kick.

- The 3 foul rule would still exist, so players would be forced to make a legal hit.

- Obviously, there would need to be ball in hand on a scratch, but it would be behind the line. With the lowest ball being spotted if it's also behind the line.
Click to expand...

WORST...... IDEA........EVER ! But other than that, have a great day :)
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
You think that would make the game better until there are people routinely fouling because the kitchen-shot has a low probability. How about this - invent a new game and call it something else.
Click to expand...

How about modify ring-rules? Play call the pocket and call safeties that way if your opponent pockets a ball in the wrong pocket, misses called pocket, or pockets a ball on a called safety the incoming player has the option to shoot or make his opponent shoot. On scratches or fouls it is BIH in the kitchen and balls in the kitchen get spotted and incoming player has option. I realize there are several scenarios that would come up that would/could make a drawn out rack here and there but I feel we need different 9/10 ball rules to bring balance. By balance I mean pool is a game/competition that you can't defend yourself when your opponent is on offense nor can you counter your opponents defensive move until you get to the table. JMO.
 
jamesjr1963 said:
How about modify ring-rules? Play call the pocket and call safeties that way if your opponent pockets a ball in the wrong pocket, misses called pocket, or pockets a ball on a called safety the incoming player has the option to shoot or make his opponent shoot. On scratches or fouls it is BIH in the kitchen and balls in the kitchen get spotted and incoming player has option. I realize there are several scenarios that would come up that would/could make a drawn out rack here and there but I feel we need different 9/10 ball rules to bring balance. By balance I mean pool is a game/competition that you can't defend yourself when your opponent is on offense nor can you counter your opponents defensive move until you get to the table. JMO.
Click to expand...

I think there is a beauty to 9ball that is lost the moment you try to make it a call-shot game. I'm not against calling shots. In fact, of all the games, I think 14.1 is probably my favorite which should give you a hint of what I'm about. That said, by moving rotation, specifically 9ball to a call-shot game, you eliminate so much of the established strategy. I don't really think you'll "improve" it. You'll only change it.

The fact is, what makes 9ball feel "unfair" is the fact that you can pocket one ball and win. In fact, that happens all the time. If you want true fairness, you have to play another game.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I think there is a beauty to 9ball that is lost the moment you try to make it a call-shot game. I'm not against calling shots. In fact, of all the games, I think 14.1 is probably my favorite which should give you a hint of what I'm about. That said, by moving rotation, specifically 9ball to a call-shot game, you eliminate so much of the established strategy. I don't really think you'll "improve" it. You'll only change it.

The fact is, what makes 9ball feel "unfair" is the fact that you can pocket one ball and win. In fact, that happens all the time. If you want true fairness, you have to play another game.
Click to expand...


I didn't say call-shot, I said call-pocket, big difference. Established strategy is play safe or shoot? Unfair? I said unbalanced, not unfair. Life is unfair.
 
Rasputin said:
Well, you don't need to change the rules or invent a new game if you don't like BIH...

If one doesn't like the Texas express rules nineball, one can always play the maybe more traditional two-foul nineball, meaning simply that you are allowed to play a push-out in any situation in the game, not only after the break. This effectively takes out BIH situations, even though BIH is still there in principle.

Same rules could be used for 10 ball with no problem.

But then again, Texas express didn't become the game of choice for most of the world by chance. There are reasons why people like it that way.
Click to expand...

That would be horrible for our TV contract we don't have.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top