This is the rules in my area pre- 90's and bih with exception of behind line on scratches (rather than in kitchen). Not a bad system at all. Nor a new system.
Respect, Courage, and Commitment!
Eliminating Ball in Hand
- Thread starter BeiberLvr
- Start date
This is the rules in my area pre- 90's and bih with exception of behind line on scratches (rather than in kitchen). Not a bad system at all. Nor a new system.
Respect, Courage, and Commitment!
I like your idea.
The problem isn't so much ball in hand itself, but how easy it is to get ball in hand.
This is correct.
BIH was popularized to speed a 7 game race for a 1 hour (tv time) match, iirc. It also made for exciting mid-game shots and probably increased the chances of the crowd's favorite jump shot. Of course this was back when Earl had "air-supremacy" with his full length shooting cue. For attracting new fans on tv, I think this is the best system. Although, I prefer watching difficult kicks and a good "chess game" of pool myself.
Respect, Courage, and Commitment!
Well, ok, do you know a lot of people who don't like it, other than the push out crowd? Or, at least, dislike it enough to not play it?
Actually there's a problem with my idea. The lowest ball could be blocked from the 'D', which basically penalizes YOU for your opponent's foul... so now you need to have the option to give the shot back to your opponent (also part of snooker rules)...
It seems that if we just play snooker, all the problems go away.
Don't leave us!
Please don't give up on posting!
You gave a concise and accurate definition of the difference. It was still too difficult for some to understand.
Call "everything" has been played by some for many years. I played one season in the "River League" in west Wisconsin around 1969, and they called every kiss, rail, etc. It once took us six hours to complete a fifteen match!!! Not much fun, but that league was primarily a drinker's night out as opposed to a night of pool...
Please don't give up on posting!
You gave a concise and accurate definition of the difference. It was still too difficult for some to understand.
Call "everything" has been played by some for many years. I played one season in the "River League" in west Wisconsin around 1969, and they called every kiss, rail, etc. It once took us six hours to complete a fifteen match!!! Not much fun, but that league was primarily a drinker's night out as opposed to a night of pool...
I completely disagree. What you are suggesting would take all the strategy out of the game. I'm in favor of eliminating jump cues for the same reason. I want to see more skill, not less.
what if you miss a kick or jump and snookers the other guy? free ball (or modified free ball, the lowest numbered ball that you can see) could solve it but it would be a complicated solution
So it doesn't take much skill to jump a ball?
I think he just meant being required to jump with a full cue instead of a jump cue, not eliminating jump shots altogether.
Either way, jumping takes some skill. We've had the discussion many times, so I won't get into it.
More Strategy
For most players I agree that it would take strategy out. But for the best, I believe that it would open the door for more strategy. Do you try to hit it? Do you try to push to a different location where you increase your odds of a successful kick or kick-safety? It then involves two players in a chess match to see where one can get better positioning, rather than just play one player, one shot, with a safety where they can't hit the ball and you run the pack out connecting the dots. I can see how this could benefit players like 1-hole players that have a better grasp of kicks. And may also diminish the advantage of run-out players a little. However, in long races, you will never out run the "sprinters" or upper echelon players unless you can match their runs. Their ability to run 6 packs during a long match becomes too hard to overcome.
Don't get me wrong, I am good with bih rules. I just don't want everything played under one set of rules or the belief that one set of rules is better than another. To each, his own! That is one of pool's strengths. We have many different rules and games. This helps people to match up better. You can also focus on one game to specialize in. And derby city is a great venue because of just this. You have straight pool, 1-hole, 9-ball, 10-ball, 9' or 10' tables, tourneys, action rooms, etc. Now if we can just get a 10' buckboard up there!:thumbup: Buckboards and 3-ball have hooked many a player over the years!
For most players I agree that it would take strategy out. But for the best, I believe that it would open the door for more strategy. Do you try to hit it? Do you try to push to a different location where you increase your odds of a successful kick or kick-safety? It then involves two players in a chess match to see where one can get better positioning, rather than just play one player, one shot, with a safety where they can't hit the ball and you run the pack out connecting the dots. I can see how this could benefit players like 1-hole players that have a better grasp of kicks. And may also diminish the advantage of run-out players a little. However, in long races, you will never out run the "sprinters" or upper echelon players unless you can match their runs. Their ability to run 6 packs during a long match becomes too hard to overcome.
Don't get me wrong, I am good with bih rules. I just don't want everything played under one set of rules or the belief that one set of rules is better than another. To each, his own! That is one of pool's strengths. We have many different rules and games. This helps people to match up better. You can also focus on one game to specialize in. And derby city is a great venue because of just this. You have straight pool, 1-hole, 9-ball, 10-ball, 9' or 10' tables, tourneys, action rooms, etc. Now if we can just get a 10' buckboard up there!:thumbup: Buckboards and 3-ball have hooked many a player over the years!
If you can't hit the ball you need to work on your kicking. The reason for the popularity of jump cues is the same reason people like the op want to take bih out of the game. They haven't taken the time to learn how to kick. It's part of the game. Those dots on the rails are there for a reason.
I'll make a comparison to basketball. They no longer enforce most of the traveling rules because today's players have grown up playing street and AAU ball and they don't have the skills to function if the rules are enforced. I see pool headed in that direction with the advent of jump cues and people complaining about bih because they are too lazy to learn how to kick.
I can kick fairly well, I hit the intended ball 80-85% of the time. I also own a jump cue, so that must mean that I haven't taken the time to learn how to kick.
Of the 10 or so kick shots, that I attempted last night, I hit the object ball full 9 times. The only kick I missed was a 3 rail kick into a cluster.Jump cues and taking away ball in hand are two totally different subjects. Let's stay on track, shall we?
Bumping this thread. Rules for pocket billiards were not delivered to us by Moses on a stone tablet.
I can kick fairly well, I hit the intended ball 80-85% of the time. I also own a jump cue, so that must mean that I haven't taken the time to learn how to kick.
Jump cues and taking away ball in hand are two totally different subjects. Let's stay on track, shall we?
ah, so there is no problem then. You should favor BIH because you don't give it up much anyways, correct ?
I was out playing last night, so I didn't get to watch the TAR stream. From what I've been reading, a lot of people really enjoyed it, and they didn't have BIH anywhere on the table.
Is there any reason those rules couldn't just be used for 9 ball?
The whole purpose of my OP wasn't to say my idea was great (or even good), but to start up a conversation on what could be done differently.
Is there any reason those rules couldn't just be used for 9 ball?
The whole purpose of my OP wasn't to say my idea was great (or even good), but to start up a conversation on what could be done differently.
I was around when the rules were changed to BIH. It was necessary because tournaments were dragging on and on for hours and sometimes even days longer than scheduled. Spectators were falling asleep in the stands. Players were dropping out because they had to leave.
9 Ball was originally a gambling game. When it's just two players matching up, it's a different story, but when you are running a tournament with time constraints, it's necessary to keep the tournament moving along.
9 Ball was originally a gambling game. When it's just two players matching up, it's a different story, but when you are running a tournament with time constraints, it's necessary to keep the tournament moving along.
And we have a winner....