Epoxy Basecoat

B

bkkpool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been using Devcon 5 minute epoxy for a base coat prior to spraying with a UV resistant urethane finish. I have noticed on some shafts that it appears to yellow and sometimes it is blotchy. Any insight to what is causing this to happen? I know that it is common to use an epoxy base so should I swap to a different epoxy?

Brian
 
bkkpool said:
I have been using Devcon 5 minute epoxy for a base coat prior to spraying with a UV resistant urethane finish. I have noticed on some shafts that it appears to yellow and sometimes it is blotchy. Any insight to what is causing this to happen? I know that it is common to use an epoxy base so should I swap to a different epoxy?

Brian
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5 minute epoxy will yellow, and some UV finishes will also yellow. If you are using Epoxy base, I would use West System with #207 hardner. What type of UV finish are you using? I can probalby give you some insight to the type of finish you are using. Jim
 
epoxy base

I'd get the epoxy video from cue components ,very helpfull,lots of detail,over 1 hour of demo
 
I have to aggree the devcon will yellow more then likely if used as a sealer. If You are trying to save money, and west is too much, then probably the cheapest alternative I have used is the system three cue coat that you can get from atlas. It has not yellowed on Me yet like some epoxies do, altough that does'nt mean it can't or won't, afterall it's epoxy;) .With just about any epoxy, on the first coat, when applying By hand, there's a possibility of staining between materials in a cue, and with some material dust, it can look like ambering is taking place, so It's a good idea to make sure the cue is clean before applying the first coat, and not over massaging it into the cue on that first coat.
In general the fast cure stuff will yellow, I think It's due the chemical reaction, but not sure. I did see one type of epoxy recently, that claims It's fast dry, super clear, without the yellowing effect, but forgot what It's called, and I have never tried It Myself.

One extra Tip I recently picked up on mixing epoxies is that wood stir sticks seem to promote bubbles in the epoxy while mixing. A metal epoxy spachula works much better, but I bet regular old stainless butter knives would work just a well. I believe the porus nature of wood stir sticks is what promotes more of the bubbles.

Greg
 
Cue Crazy, I was thinking along the same lines as you. The manor that the epoxy was mixed up will cause bubbles. I put my mixture into a de-gassing chamber. I know for a fact there where no bubbles. After spreading on freshly cleaned raw wood, I ended up with several bubbles. I am forced to conclude that the bubbles are caused by the air trapped under the epoxy in the grain of the wood. I then ran a thin coat of CA over the wood first with same process and had far less trouble. If there is someone out there with a better way, please let me know. I would be happy to try something else with the epoxy method.

thanks, Jim.
 
Jim,

I could see that happening, Kind of falls under the same theory as the wood stir sticks I suppose, with that sponge type action taking place, so I guess the bubbles could rise under or into the coat. The Ca probably sealed It off as It sounds like You suspect already.
For Me the epoxy coat is strickly for grain filling and sealing, so even with My wood stir sticks It works for me. The reason It Is not big issue is that I sand It almost back down to wood anyway before putting a urethane for My top coats on, and have no major issues with bubbling, But yes If building the epoxy up, I can see these bubbles being a big issue.

Strange but true, I once experiemented with water based finishes. I had one cue i did, and it came out pretty decent looking. There were no bubbles, but as time went on tiny bubbles started appearing in the finish. I never did figure out what was taking place, and how this could happen in a finish that was well cured.:confused:, but then again i never really tried, because i did'nt want to chance a finish that would do that after the fact anyhow:)

Greg
 
i know yall hate to hear it but im a fishing rod builder,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,dont stir with wood, ,,,,an ols plastic paint brush handle is what i use

also i use an epoxy made by flexcoat. they have several epoxys including a 5 min and a low build. great company to deal with once you get them on the phone.

also i mix my epoxy in those little graduated plastic cups so i measure equal amounts of each ( available at the medical supply place for 3 bucks a hundred ). ever have epoxy not kick off good ? its a mess. better safe than sorry

also a trick from the manufacturer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,pour in part b firt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i thought it was a but the company told me b first,,,,,,,,,,,,,,inside trick

and if you forget what you poured in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it happens,,,,,,,,,,,,,,pour it out and start over

this is from a guy who goes through gallons of epoxy a year

gtg got some rods turning now ,,,,,,,,,,i do 4 at a time all day this time of year,,,,,,,,,,,o yeah, wipe the area down good with a chemical like toulene before you work on it and if it starts to kick off fast let it go and come back to it when its dry. dont make a mess

and get that stuff off your hands too
 
Finish-Cure 20 Min. Epoxy Try it This Stuff Works Great. It is Clear Any Cue Maker Will Love It. Call. Prather !!!!!!!!!!!.:)
 
Mike,

I use it on my butts as well. It is not a terrible yellowing but it is unattractive to me.
 
Finish

billiardbum said:
5 minute epoxy will yellow, and some UV finishes will also yellow. If you are using Epoxy base, I would use West System with #207 hardner. What type of UV finish are you using? I can probalby give you some insight to the type of finish you are using. Jim
Click to expand...

I have been using a spar urethane. I am getting really good results from my finish.
 
yellowing is a big deal in rod making. ive had to look around for finishhes that wont wellow. flexcoat is good

i dont use the 5 min. what i use i put on and let turn for the day till it kicks off real good,,,,,,8 hours or so with an 18 rpm motor

after all fishing rods are uaed in the sunlight and most of what i build is charter boat stuff so it gets abused

it will dry as slick as a meuccis wrap,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lol
 
Flexcoat

billfishhead said:
yellowing is a big deal in rod making. ive had to look around for finishhes that wont wellow. flexcoat is good

i dont use the 5 min. what i use i put on and let turn for the day till it kicks off real good,,,,,,8 hours or so with an 18 rpm motor

after all fishing rods are uaed in the sunlight and most of what i build is charter boat stuff so it gets abused

it will dry as slick as a meuccis wrap,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lol
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Do you use their rod wrapping finish? Is it the high build or lite?
 
for my purposes i use the high build to protect the wraps, but i believe id use the low build for cues

did a cross wrap of o rebel flag on a cue a long time ago,,,,,,,,,,,,,worked fine

if you use the high build you can sand it down and make it like glass after a few coats even with a bumpy thread layers or multiple threads

check out custom rod thread art,,,,,,,,,,,the book,,,,,,,,,,for designs, or guibrod threads advertising for some wild ideas
 
Devcon epoxy

I have been told that the devcon will yellow so I have never used it. I do use the 20 min finish epoxy and I have got great results from it. I have had the problem with the bubbles in the finish but what I do to help eliminate it is I rub it in really well and then I spin the cue at around 400 rpm just a few seconds and a time. You dont want to make a bunch of hills and valleys just try get the bubbles to pop. Then I rotate the cue at about 30 rpm(Best I could do) for about 3 hours. It can take a really long time dry I dont care what it says if you get it in 20 min you a very very lucky. Now you cant stop a one coat you need to put on at least two coats. both coats should go on in the same day if you wait more that like 6 hours between coats you will have to sand before you apply the next coat. Wait 3 days to sand. This is exactly what I do and I get perfect results every time. Good luck and above all be patient
 
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Epoxy Bubble Problem Solved!

Hi,

I have been using G5 for sealing my cue for about 3 years and I was going nuts because I was getting bubbles in the sealing finish. Sometimes it came out perfect sometimes the bubbles would appear and when you sand the bubbles they turn into pot holes and you have to sand all the way down and start again. If this is a point veneer cue you rick the bleeding of darker into lighter colors because you have to sand down pretty far.

I finally figured it out. The ambient temperature of the cue, the epoxy bottles, and the room are critical. If the temperature is below 70 degrees you are risking the bubbles. I now keep my temperatures between 75 and 80 and I never have this problem that was haunting me for over a year.

I now put on 3 coats of epoxy for sealing. This was with 3 coats the material is not too thin and you will not burn thru when your are flat sanding. Make sure that you wait 3 or 4 minutes between coats. If you wait over 5 minutes the finish will not be monolithic. You can sand within 8 hours with the hard cure. I usually sand the next day.

I am now super sensitive with temperature when spray finishing my cues and things are very repeatable. I built a heating system with light bulbs and a thermostat for my spray booth and I am now loving life when it come down to finishing my cues during cold times of the year.

I hope that this experience will help anyone solve the problems I was dealing with.

Very truly yours,

Rick Geschrey
 
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