Experimental 8-10 oz. cue

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derangedhermit

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I'm thinking about building a playing cue from an extra-long graphite driver shaft. It would be 54"-56" and weigh about 8 oz, or about half what a cue typically weighs. All I know about how it might play is that as the weight of the cue approaches the weight of the ball, the momentum transfer gets very efficient. Other than that, I have no idea how it might be to play with.

I guess something like this has been tried before. Since it didn't take off, what were the drawbacks? Were there any positives?
 
This question might best be asked in the "Ask the Cuemaker" forum


derangedhermit said:
I'm thinking about building a playing cue from an extra-long graphite driver shaft. It would be 54"-56" and weigh about 8 oz, or about half what a cue typically weighs. All I know about how it might play is that as the weight of the cue approaches the weight of the ball, the momentum transfer gets very efficient. Other than that, I have no idea how it might be to play with.

I guess something like this has been tried before. Since it didn't take off, what were the drawbacks? Were there any positives?
Click to expand...
 
derangedhermit said:
I'm thinking about building a playing cue from an extra-long graphite driver shaft. It would be 54"-56" and weigh about 8 oz, or about half what a cue typically weighs. All I know about how it might play is that as the weight of the cue approaches the weight of the ball, the momentum transfer gets very efficient. Other than that, I have no idea how it might be to play with.

I guess something like this has been tried before. Since it didn't take off, what were the drawbacks? Were there any positives?
Click to expand...


What do you mean when you say the Momentum transfer gets very efficient?
 
If you think that lowering the mass will increase energy transfer simply because of the energy transfer between 2 equally weighted pool balls is as close to elastic as we see in the real world there is more to it... Efficient energy transfer has more than COR as a component... The issue is that at the same mass the COR will impact both objects and the cue will not get thru the cueball. Imagine your tip will now take the tangent of your impacts just like the cueball.....

This is why jump cues at their lightest weigh about the same as the cue ball.... At that mass they don't transfer energy they actually absorb energy when they bounce back off of the impact.... No mass will be no inertia...
I have an 8 ounce jump cue and you could not even use it as a shorty for tight places........
 
The Renfro said:
If you think that lowering the mass will increase energy transfer simply because of the energy transfer between 2 equally weighted pool balls is as close to elastic as we see in the real world there is more to it... Efficient energy transfer has more than COR as a component... The issue is that at the same mass the COR will impact both objects and the cue will not get thru the cueball. Imagine your tip will now take the tangent of your impacts just like the cueball.....
Click to expand...

I agree it would be headed in that direction, although the cue would still weigh about 50% more, so there would still be some forward movement. But you are right, if it were equal it would completely transfer momentum and stop on contact with the cue ball. I'm not sure that's awful, except you need enough contact time to put spin on the ball. I think it would remain, but am not sure. It would make shots where the CB and OB close together, avoiding double hits, much easier.

The tip already moves more off center (towards "take the tangent") to a lesser extent on off-center hits, more so with an low squirt / LD shaft. I imagine it would be *very* low squirt.

The Renfro said:
This is why jump cues at their lightest weigh about the same as the cue ball.... At that mass they don't transfer energy they actually absorb energy when they bounce back off of the impact.... No mass will be no inertia...
I have an 8 ounce jump cue and you could not even use it as a shorty for tight places........
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At equal mass the transfer is in fact as good as it will get. Great idea to try out shooting with a jump cue. That's a practical way to try it out. I'll borrow my son's.:grin:
 
whammo57 said:
You must have more energy to transfer than is actually needed. If the ball and cue weight the same they will bounce equally.

Check out Issac Newtons balls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_cradle

It won't work.

Kim
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Well, given equal weight, if the cue is going 10 and hits the cue ball, then the cue will be going 0 and the cue ball going 10 (approximately), like your example above. I'm not sure why you conclude it won't work. It will feel strange, since the cue decelerates much more rapidly than normal.
 
derangedhermit said:
Well, given equal weight, if the cue is going 10 and hits the cue ball, then the cue will be going 0 and the cue ball going 10 (approximately), like your example above. I'm not sure why you conclude it won't work. It will feel strange, since the cue decelerates much more rapidly than normal.
Click to expand...

Try shooting with a 9 oz jump cue and you will get a feel of why it is a bad idea.

If it was a good idea, everyone would already be doing it. Why do you think that after a few hundred years, the cue has evolved to a weight of 17 to 21 oz???

Kim
 
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I ordered a 14oz cue which came in under. Played for about a year then started adding weight. I'm now at about 16.5 - 17 with the weights and rubber grip.. It seems for me to be better.

An 8oz cue I would think you'd have to hold it too tight be using the weight of your arm to in order to get through the ball. Not good technique.

Edit: With this light of a cue your stroke will have to be absolutely perfect. Its easier to swing straight with a heavy cue than a light one.
 
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I am kind of a nut on Jump cues... Which is a bad and good thing for my cue maker... When we first started he like many others thought length was key.... As we delved into creating what I had in my head we ended up with a super light jumper that had an extended handle to aid in stroke jumping...

What we found was that the while the added handle did lengthen the cue and double the weight that the balance plays a very important role.. With all of the weight removed from the front end of the cue even adding it back to the butt end did not allow the cue to get thru the cue ball properly to be able to jump using english... I now carry 2 jump cues and use them as needed.. The ultralight is a defensive weapon used properly along with allowing me to get over balls separated by 3 inches 10 out of 10....

The stroke jumper weighs in around 11 ounces and I need 6 inches plus to use it properly but I would classify it as an offensive tool.. Someone playing a weak safe has to fade 2 options I have in my bag....

Even tho the stroke jumper is 11 ounces it still is not fit to shoot with... I can make some balls with it but the control and spin are not in the ballpark of a full weight cue....
 
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