i've watche a lot of RO'Sul and it looks to me that he's looking at OB when he pulls the trigger. Just curious, why the crusade to convince us that CB last is the shit? If you like it great but don't try to tell me that its the most popular, or effective, way to shoot. Its one way, nothing more.Did you miss the quiet part? Stephen Hendry only held all records before Ronnie. Ronnie when questioned around 2016? Said when questioned about one shot, "I can't be sure. Sometimes it can be either."(gist of)
The camera work provided by Matchroom gives a good look at all players eyes at times. Usually the break off. Ronnie is the hardest to read. Like the man with no eyes, all seeing.
Neil is presented as greatest of the Long Pot by Stephen, so I agree
Mark Williams just put a 147 on display. His heavy brow shows up and down movement as he shoots. Stephen describes his movement briefly. The Pause is as critical as the eye pattern.
Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.
- Thread starter gregcantrall
- Start date
The fundamental wrong position is (to this day
) held by many. My intention was and still is to counter that fallacy. I am not selling anything but perhaps The Truth.I know the thread is bloated but I have published the evidence as I have found it.
I have been watching on the $5 a month Matchroom and the camera work gives occasional high def look at the eye patern of all players. Understanding that what I think I am seeing could be tainted by a prejudice. To have Stephen Hendry speaking of his eye patern is huge. Well compared to what you get from the keyboard gurus that possibly couldn't spell Pool if you spotted them an o.(an old pool axiom)
If you want, you can get a very detailed description of Mark Wilson's eye pattern in Play Great Pool...but you won't like the outcome. It seems reasonable that looking at the CB last will allow you to hit the spot you are aiming at on the CB more accurately, but it seems to me that there are two components to aiming:
1. Contact point on CB.
2. Direction you are aiming the CB.
I think looking at the CB last, while increasing your contact point accuracy, may cause greater error in the direction you're aiming. So, I think players have to decide what is more important: accurate contact point or accurate direction the CB travels. That may change with shot length or if there are interfering balls or rails that make the contact area on the CB smaller.
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Most players from new players to old time players do whatever they do naturally. I’ve always looked at the OB last. However, I’m at the point in my mid 60s and struggling with my game to the extent that I have absolutely nothing to lose experimenting with looking at the CB last for more than just shots off the rail, just to see what happens.
i let my mind control things. otherwise under pressure you return to what your mind would have done anyway,
but when frozen to the rail or a very long draw shot where i must hit very low almost to the miscue spot. i will look at the cueball last
as the cueball hit is the most important part of that shot. and a tiny bit off side on the cueball cannot be made up for a slightly better hit on the object ball.
but when frozen to the rail or a very long draw shot where i must hit very low almost to the miscue spot. i will look at the cueball last
as the cueball hit is the most important part of that shot. and a tiny bit off side on the cueball cannot be made up for a slightly better hit on the object ball.
Is that Mark Williams ? Have you ever seen his no look and eyes closed shots? He did just post a 147, he was looking on those shots though
.I have no preference in the outcome
Play Great Pool | Mark Wilson, The St. Louis Shooter
One of the top pool players in the United States, Mark has toured the world with the intent of advancing Billiards as a sport. Mark was a player on Team USA at the 1994 and 1995 Mosconi Cup Tournament…
playgreatpool.com
I’ve tried just about everything to stop father time in the regression of my pool skills, now in my mid 60s. Never once in my 50+ years of playing have I looked at the cue ball last, but experimenting with it tonight for the first time, I will have to admit I am very encouraged by the results. I plan to stick with it to see how it holds up, particularly under match/tournament pressure.
It seems to be the key for it to work is you really have to precisely lock in on your pre-shot aim and your pre-shot strokes, then just trust it and concentrate on a straight back and straight through stroke where you intend to contact the cue ball.
For me it was a leap of faith to take it from the practice table to competition. At first it almost seemed magical that I was not looking where I was accustomed but it worked.
The aging process could be a big part of why I do better looking at the ball close to me. My vision ain't what it used to be.
The hardest thing is to change habits at my age.
It's my experience that people that look at the cue ball last don't talk about it. Again I can't count the players that want to fix me when I mention it. "Oh Hell No" is a response I am accustomed to.
The precision that you are able to strike the cue ball exactly where you intend to and that this allows you to visually confirm that your stroke is being delivered straight back and straight through, in terms of shotmaking accuracy might more than make up for the fact that you are not focused on your target (the object ball ) through your stroke.For me it was a leap of faith to take it from the practice table to competition. At first it almost seemed magical that I was not looking where I was accustomed but it worked.
The aging process could be a big part of why I do better looking at the ball close to me. My vision ain't what it used to be.
The hardest thing is to change habits at my age.
It's my experience that people that look at the cue ball last don't talk about it. Again I can't count the players that want to fix me when I mention it. "Oh Hell No" is a response I am accustomed to.
So Hendry shot cue ball last?
Since this is still going, I thought I'd mention again, that I still shoot cue ball last. Having spent many years (actually whole minutes evolving) working the method I look back and see benefits to the degree that it's unequivocally the best way for me.
Cue ball IS the ball you need to shoot and the only one you are allowed to shoot.
Setting it in motion accurately IS the shot.
Once you pull the trigger the shot transpires immutably per what you dialed into it.
Watching the object ball while you execute in addition to being too late, precludes visual feedback of the actual stroke into the cue ball and will induce perspective bias into what is essentially a two dimensional problem.
On this last point, I have chosen to preconfigure the shot - do the eyeballing first and then simply shoot the cue ball.
Since this is still going, I thought I'd mention again, that I still shoot cue ball last. Having spent many years (actually whole minutes evolving) working the method I look back and see benefits to the degree that it's unequivocally the best way for me.
Cue ball IS the ball you need to shoot and the only one you are allowed to shoot.
Setting it in motion accurately IS the shot.
Once you pull the trigger the shot transpires immutably per what you dialed into it.
Watching the object ball while you execute in addition to being too late, precludes visual feedback of the actual stroke into the cue ball and will induce perspective bias into what is essentially a two dimensional problem.
On this last point, I have chosen to preconfigure the shot - do the eyeballing first and then simply shoot the cue ball.
Yes! In his discussion with Neil, Neil revealed that he was cue ball last until an instructor had him change. I think the age was 14. Then it was revealed that Stephen is cue ball last.
Call me fanatic but I do tune out when the pros claim object ball last. lol. Ok, you're always focused on the prime directive, 100% in tune with the collision and therefore speed and direction. Yada yada... In my hypothetical (pivot word for the arguers) world, those majority pros and champs have incorporated all the biases and bad smells into a system that gets the food. It's a full time thing - bilyenzaballz to the promised land.
I just shoot the pool and my way is betterrer. Yup. Uh huh.
I just shoot the pool and my way is betterrer. Yup. Uh huh.
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Absolutely correct. IOW, all aiming is completed before the bridge hand hits the cloth. Then, ensuring the stroke motion is coming through precisely straight. Slight pause, and watch the delivery stroke return to the intended CB point of contact. In my method, I also confirm my right elbow is directly over the cue stick handle.
After trying this last night for a few hours for the first time ever, I’m now more excited / optimistic for my pool game than I’ve been in many many years. I’ll give it a month and follow back up on this thread with my progress. This is why I love this forum!
There are circumstances where you look at the cue ball when striking. The break is one example where many instructors recommend it. Also when bridging over an obstructing object ball. And don't forget the jump shot. I know of no one that doesn't look at the cue ball when jumping.
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We all know that, but the original OP is talking about being committed to focusing on cue ball last on absolutely all shots, even when the cue ball is 8-9 feet away from the object ball.
Yes... I know. I was trained to shift my eyes back a forth during practice strokes and when in the set position, look at cue ball on the back stroke, shift to object ball at the pause, and fire away.
From my very similar experience of the optimistic and pleasant again feeling. I had taken an extended break from pool to explore the creek beds for gold. Another profitable hobby. Perhaps $.50 an hour. But oh was it fun.
Upon returning to civilization my attention retuned to pool. But the accuracy wasn't coming back and it just was discouraging. I guess I related this In the Beginning.
Now today this many years, I still enjoy the game!
What more could a Retiree ( I prefer over Old CS) want.?
I still take it as a study and can always learn. I feel my skills are now better which needs to be taken to the fields of friendly strife.
Stephen Hendry has recently started a YouTube channel or site or whatever it's called. He is very good with his professor skills honed in his Matchroom commentary.
Barry Stark is the other gold or platinum to be found on YouTube.
Stephen does not emphasis on eyes as it is just one part of the process.
The pause and ring finger from Barry are huge as well.
The Matchroom coverage gives a good frequent look at the eye pattern on break off, which is longer and harder than algebra. I think I have seen what Stephen related in some of the strongest youngsters (and oldsters)
. The look down can be quick as described by Stephen. Mine is more leasurely. John Higgins and Mark Williams have heavy brows so can be seen raising and lowering them which I assume is same as eyes.Almost forgot the Yogiism observe a lot by watching.