Explain cues to me please part 2

8

8up

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok I got a lot of replies in my first part. Now I will tell you why I ask.

I own a Lucasi its straight and 19oz. The taper feels nice. It retails right now for $151. I can not blame the stick for any bad play.

I also had a cheap cue bottom of the line that I sometimes break with at home. Its ferral is cracked and has duct tape around it and has a flat tip thats almost worn down to the ferral. Its warped as well. Yet it breaks the balls harder and leaves them spread out better than any other stick I have. Why I have no idea?

Now I just won a Schon CX-36 which is no longer made but seems to probably be a $600-$800 stick.

Now my mind is debating whether to keep the schon which might give me a little confidence knowing I have a good stick. OR selling the stick to help with getting some professional instruction. Pride says keep the stick but the logical part of my brain (and my shooting) says I would benefit more from the lessons. Chances are the only way I will ever own another $500 stick is to save my money for a year or more.

So in a nutshell. is a lower level player better off keeping a $500 stick because he may never be able to afford another or is he better off getting lessons and continuing to play with his $150 stick.
 
I have heard someone say,
​
"The butt is for show and the shaft is for dough."

There's probably some truth in there, but I really think the right saying is,
​
"The cue is for show and the stroke is for dough."

Point is, I think a good player (I am NOT a good player) can play with any house cue after a short time to get the feel. A personal cue has definite advantages: The cue you are used to will feel comfortable and familiar. You will know how to play it like a musician gets to know his instrument. But the real key is the indian, not the arrow.

With a limited budget, I often obsess about my next cue buying decision, but I do not believe in the "UberCue": I do not believe in the perfect weight or balance point or taper or joint etc.

I am trying different cues to find the one that feels best... to me. MHO.
 
As long as you're getting lessons from a good instructor, the lessons are vastly more valuable and helpful to your game than any cue.

99% of amateur pool players are completely equipment fixated. Some call it the "Excalibur Syndrome"...always searching for the cue or equipment that will make them shoot better. It's a search that is never complete and never will be because it's based on a false premise.

One of the most liberating things and one of the critical moments in a player's career is the day they dismiss that type of thinking and become skills-based thinking. Hopefully one never gets into thinking a cue will make their game. Beginners that avoid that tend to get better faster and become good players while others languish in mediocrity.

I will say this, good equipment can help - but it doesn't make for a good game. Example would be equipment that is consistent. That's #1. Low deflection shafts help a little - but aren't going to make you play well.

Here's a good example. I've been to a number of major tournaments and got to speak with a large number of top players. You'd be surprised to learn that most of them are somewhat clueless when it comes to cues and tips and gear compared to many of the people on this forum who can't run 5 balls. These pros know equipment, but they aren't fanatical to the extreme details and differences. Some barely know anything about what they use. They go with something that feels good and then they focus on their game. THEIR game. Cue doesn't make your game. You do.

In short, they're busy playing more rather than obsessing on cues.

About the cues you asked I'll give you my opinion. The difference in playability between the Schon and Lucasi is ZERO. One is not better than the other.

I do believe there is a basic quality level though. I'm not one of these players that thinks a broomstick will do if you're good enough. Buy a good cue and you're set. Schon, Lucasi, Predator, OB, Viking, Meucci whatever. As long as the cue plays consistent - it's good enough. And you can get consistent play in many brands from $100 - $200.
 
First off... It's a cue. Just because it happens to be partially made of wood does not make it a STICK!!!

[/ok pet peeve greveance aired.]

If you dont keep/use the Schon you will regret it. Wheter or not it's true, if you sell it and don't play with it you will think it was the biggest mistake you ever made. Every shot you miss... that Schon will pop into your head. lol.
 
I have to agree with most on this...a buddy of mine owned a schon and yea it played nice and hit nice but no different than my viking or TXQ (tripple cross, one of a kind). So in all honesty sell it take the money and get some good lessons...and you'll find in time it was well worth it, and you may be able to make some of it back by winning
 
Hypothetical situation, you sell the cue, you get some lessons with the money. 6 months down the road you find you learned a few useful tips in the lessons but alot of stuff did not work so well for your particual style of play. The killer to you now is that you are shooting with that $150 cue and your game has naturally improved simply from the time commitment you have put into the game more then anything, and now with that time commitment and improved skill you are starting to get a "feel" for the differences in certain types of cues and you now can tell the difference in "feel" that the schon had over your $150 cue and can see how its hit could positively affect your game. Schons are known to be great "feeling" production cues, you might not be able to tell yet waht the critical differences are but if you actually do improve you will start to appreciate the superior quality construction of a better built cue.

I agree with the guy above, lessons may help abit but once you buy them you are left with nothing but the kowledge and experience and you better hope that pays off. You keep the cue instead and practice with it you not only might start shooting better but you maintain possession of a valuable asset that you can liquidate at any time.
 
8up said:
Ok I got a lot of replies in my first part. Now I will tell you why I ask.

I own a Lucasi its straight and 19oz. The taper feels nice. It retails right now for $151. I can not blame the stick for any bad play.

I also had a cheap cue bottom of the line that I sometimes break with at home. Its ferral is cracked and has duct tape around it and has a flat tip thats almost worn down to the ferral. Its warped as well. Yet it breaks the balls harder and leaves them spread out better than any other stick I have. Why I have no idea?

Now I just won a Schon CX-36 which is no longer made but seems to probably be a $600-$800 stick.

Now my mind is debating whether to keep the schon which might give me a little confidence knowing I have a good stick. OR selling the stick to help with getting some professional instruction. Pride says keep the stick but the logical part of my brain (and my shooting) says I would benefit more from the lessons. Chances are the only way I will ever own another $500 stick is to save my money for a year or more.

So in a nutshell. is a lower level player better off keeping a $500 stick because he may never be able to afford another or is he better off getting lessons and continuing to play with his $150 stick.
Click to expand...


The way I see it you have two choices.. Sell it or keep it. Either way I would buy a 314 shaft for which ever cue you keep. If you like the looks lif the Schon keep it and sell the Lucasi for $100 and put that towards a 314 shaft for the Schon.

Or sell the Schon buy a 314 shaft for the Lucasi. (which will make it play a heck of a lot better)
 
You've got two things confused. How a cue plays and how it breaks are two different things. A hard tip breaks the balls better. The beater has a very hard packed tip from all the abuse it's taken over the years. Hence the better spread. You may also subsconsciously really Give-it-to-'er when you use the beater, because you aren't scared of hurting it.

As for whether a person should spend money on a cue or lessons - I can't believe anyone suggests the cue. Lessons (if they're good lessons and they actually improve your game) will allow you to experience better, more enjoyable pool.

The bottom line is: you want to enjoy pool. What do you get out of pool? Do you want to show off your pretty cue to your buddies and pretend you're a great shooter? Or do you want to actually BE a great shooter? The stick will not make you a great shooter.

If you add up every ball you missed due to the difference between a $150 stick and a $600 stick, at the end of a month you will still be counting on one hand. If you add up every ball you missed due to the difference between your current shooting level and the level that lessons will help you reach ... the number is much larger.

I promise you, a $150 dollar cue is enough to put up a 6 pack at the local pool hall. But you're never reaching a 6 pack without knowledge and a correct stroke.
 
8up said:
So in a nutshell. is a lower level player better off keeping a $500 stick because he may never be able to afford another or is he better off getting lessons and continuing to play with his $150 stick.
Click to expand...

There is absolutely no doubt that if your priority is improving your game, the lessons will be of far greater value than a cue possibly could.

A lot of people like nice cues because they're nice cues. They're prettier, they're finer examples of craftsmanship, they're a status symbol in poolrooms, they're collectibles, they hold their value and sometimes appreciate, and in many cases they're unique. But they don't make you play any better, provided you already have a cue which is solid (which you do).

Lessons, on the other hand, absolutely can help you play better.

So your question is a no-brainer, if your only priority is improving your game.

-Andrew
 
keep the stick

It is my belief that you should keep the cue. I have sold a couple of cues that I wished I would have kept.( sentimental reasons, not price). The cue is costing you nothing to keep because you already own it. Save a little money and take a lesson. Practice the fundamentals from that lesson while you save for another lesson and so on. Just my two cents worth.
 
Sell the cue (or raffle it if you can get more). Then, go to the "ask the instructor" section of AZB and find an instructor. I'm not a great player but I do know that I didn't waste my money on instruction. In fact, I'm going back this year. That Schon is great, but quality instruction is more valuable.
 
Why not sell the lucasi for $100.00 keep the schon an but the 3 pack dvd set. There are a lot of great dvds out there. Skip :smile:
 
keep the schon

8up said:
...Pride says keep the stick but the logical part of my brain (and my shooting) says I would benefit more from the lessons. Chances are the only way I will ever own another $500 stick is to save my money for a year or more.

So in a nutshell. is a lower level player better off keeping a $500 stick because he may never be able to afford another or is he better off getting lessons and continuing to play with his $150 stick.
Click to expand...

i think most people would benefit more from lessons than from a cue, so no arguement there.
but you say if you sell off your cue that it would take you "a year or more" even to buy one in that price range.
why not just keep the cue and take lessons here and there throughout the course of the year? i'm sure they won't be too much to afford.
and even if the lessons cost $500 over the course of one year that's only $42/mth
trust me... lessons take time to learn and a lifetime to master.
unless you're in a huge rush to improve, keep your new cue.
 
Sell the Schon and take some lessons then concentrate on getting a low deflection shaft. IMO
 
I have 5 books and DR dave's cd's. But when I try the shot and it doesn't work the book isn't standing there telling me what I did wrong. I do have sometime to think about it before the schon shows up. I will use this time to read and use the cd's but I doubt there is anything that compares to a good instructor. I just hate the thought of possibly making bad habits harder to break by playing with them longer.

A 314 shaft would be nice if I could find a used one to fit the lucasi. Which opens another choice. The schon has the same type joint as another cue I have so I might could buy a 314 shaft and sell the lucasi.

for lessons I have several choices if I sell the cue.

Use the money for gas and drive 1300 miles to a top instructor for free lessons.

Drive half that far for lessons with another respected instructor at a discounted rate.

Book with Stan Shuffet 250 miles and wait until summer for an opening $500.

Find someone local instructor

Table time is not an option as I have one in the basement.

Keep the opinions coming I appreciate them.
 
keep schon

8up said:
Ok I got a lot of replies in my first part. Now I will tell you why I ask.

I own a Lucasi its straight and 19oz. The taper feels nice. It retails right now for $151. I can not blame the stick for any bad play.

I also had a cheap cue bottom of the line that I sometimes break with at home. Its ferral is cracked and has duct tape around it and has a flat tip thats almost worn down to the ferral. Its warped as well. Yet it breaks the balls harder and leaves them spread out better than any other stick I have. Why I have no idea?

Now I just won a Schon CX-36 which is no longer made but seems to probably be a $600-$800 stick.

Now my mind is debating whether to keep the schon which might give me a little confidence knowing I have a good stick. OR selling the stick to help with getting some professional instruction. Pride says keep the stick but the logical part of my brain (and my shooting) says I would benefit more from the lessons. Chances are the only way I will ever own another $500 stick is to save my money for a year or more.

So in a nutshell. is a lower level player better off keeping a $500 stick because he may never be able to afford another or is he better off getting lessons and continuing to play with his $150 stick.
Click to expand...

man can not live by two cues alone. keep the schon you seem to have
a good deal in it . what will happen if you sell cue ,after you spend money
in about a week or two money will be gone who knows where. your good
friend will be sporting a nice schon cue . been there and done that .
think about it take care johnqbs:anderson sc
 
Sell both and buy a Custom Cue! You can't play well without a Custom Cue!!

</sarcasm off>

Seriously, if you want to play better, sell the Schon and pay for lessons and practice time. If you want to have a nice cue, sell the other ones and keep the Schon. It's up to you which one will make you happier.
 
If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a night; if you teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime. (or something like that).

Schon's will always be available when you're ready. If you are serious about pool, sell it and take advantage of the lessons you could not otherwise afford or play like crazy and gamble on the cheap to force you to try your best. That will be your gift.

Dave
 
I just went through a similiar experience. In mine I purchased the stick and played with it for about a month and then realized I need instruction if I want to get significantly better....which is my main goal.

I've had 2 lessons and I'm shocked how much I've learned. There is no way I would have figured out on my own what my instructor has already taught me. I would play with a house cue before I would give up what I learned. The fundamentals that are neccesary to hit the ball straight make total sense to me now. It has also made practicing much more fruitful.

I don't believe in a "magic" cue either. There are too many phenomenal cue makers making great cues...at all price points. And if your wallet becomes a little light-buying a used cue won't hurt. Besides you already have a good cue.

Good luck with your decision.
 
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