Eye alignment.............

[Still want to shoot]

Watch the first 3 seconds of this, the little back and forth before he takes his final stroke. Notice how short those strokes are. They aren't "practice strokes." He's not "practicing" what he wants his final stroke to be. He's seeing that the cue is in line and feeling if it's balanced in his grip hand correctly. Watch many pros and really try to analyze what they are doing.

Doing full fledged strokes before your final stroke is a practice stroke. Shane is essentially feathering the cue and one stroking it in this clip.

In this next clip, watch fedor. He goes back, then forward and a short back feathering. He is feeling if it feels right. These guys know their alignment so they don't need to make much of it. When you're learning to get a straight stroke as a rote action, watching the tip feather confirms you're on line.

I really don't feel like arguing terminology. Watch the pros and most good players... their "practice strokes" aren't practicing anything. They are checking the cue is straight and calibrating speed and balance on the grip hand. In that little back and forth on the shane clip notice how little of a thing it seems. That little feathering gives so much info that it's hard to overstate the importance of that step. It isn't talked about a lot but there is a lot to learn and info to gather from that little movement.

Yeah, i do both on most shots. The fiddling with the shaft while examining the shot and planning leave. and playing around with stroke while down on the shot. I just didnt realize at first what you were talking about. bob correctly pretty quickly up above too.

Sometimes after a few stroke practices i can lose focus or aim. and still jab at the shot and miss.
It is helping my consistency with making shots to make sure i stand up an reapproach the shot.
I'm a self conscious person and sometimes i get it in my head that i am taking too long and will shoot even if ive lost my focus because the other person is waiting. it's a me problem lol

 

[boogieman]

I'm a self conscious person and sometimes i get it in my head that i am taking too long and will shoot even if ive lost my focus because the other person is waiting. it's a me problem lol

I get that way sometimes too. I gotta tell myself "this is my personal playground on the table, the next guy can shoot when I'm done."

If a lot of guys pick up on the fact your feel hurried, they may even speed up their pace to get you to speed up even more, throwing you off your game. Personal pace is pretty important, the dance can't be rushed. It's rare to have a missed a shot then think to yourself, "I wish I had shot that quicker."

 

[BC21]

I think you have a different definition of dominant eye than the physical definition. With the physical definition, you don't have a choice as to which eye is dominant, which means the dominant eye sends the sight info to the brain first.

Eye dominance can actually change or shift depending on the visual task. Research indicates that the brain favors whichever eye provides the most efficient and abundant information, not the quickest information, and not necessarily the most accurate information. This is why eye dominance can actually shift from one eye to another when performing different things.

Let's say you're an attorney and have two research handlers that help gather and sort info for cases, and both handlers deliver their data at the same time each week. One handler always brings a pile of data in, very thorough, but also very sloppy or haphazard in how they deliver/present the data. The other handler brings in an equal amount of data but delivers/presents it in a more organized, cleaner pile. You will use all the data from both handlers, but you prefer the more organized pile, rather than the sloppy, less organized pile.

This is basically how the brain develops a dominate/favored eye. But sometimes, depending on the task and the data being received, the brain will prefer the info from the non-typically dominant eye, switching the dominance role as needed.

 

[Still want to shoot]

Yeah, theres enough people out there that already inturupt peoples flow time at the table when they shouldnt. I don't need to be messing it up myself also.

What I am refering to is when you are trying to figure out a complicated shot and they come up to give you thier advice on what they would do, when you didnt ask.
I would much prefer that kind of advice after the shot. for the most part it just messes with me.

 

[BC21]

Yeah, theres enough people out there that already inturupt peoples flow time at the table when they shouldnt. I don't need to be messing it up myself also.

What I am refering to is when you are trying to figure out a complicated shot and they come up to give you thier advice on what they would do, when you didnt ask.
I would much prefer that kind of advice after the shot. for the most part it just messes with me.

I agree. I don't offer my advice or opinion prior to the shot unless I am asked for it. And if so, I typical end the spill with something like... "You should really do what you feel most comfortable with, whatever you believe you can pull off best."

 

[FranCrimi]

Eye dominance can actually change or shift depending on the visual task. Research indicates that the brain favors whichever eye provides the most efficient and abundant information, not the quickest information, and not necessarily the most accurate information. This is why eye dominance can actually shift from one eye to another when performing different things.

Let's say your an attorney and have two research handlers that help gather and sort info for cases, and both handlers deliver their data at the same time each week. One handler always brings a pile of data in, very thorough, but also very sloppy or haphazard in how they deliver/present the data. The other handler brings in an equal amount of data but delivers/presents it in a more organized, cleaner pile. You will use all the data from both handlers, but you prefer the more organized pile, rather than the sloppy, less organized pile.

This is basically how the brain develops a dominate/favored eye. But sometimes, depending on the task and the data being received, the brain will prefer the info from the non-typically dominant eye, switching the dominance role as needed.

There are different definitions floating around out there of eye dominance. Yours is not the physical one.

An ophthalmologist taught me what a physically dominant eye is. There are nerves that extend from each eye to our brain. Some of those nerves take a straight line to the brain. Others crisscross each other.

The eye that has more nerves that go straight to the brain than the other eye will send the information to the brain faster than the other eye. The severity of the dominance has to do with the amount of difference in straight back nerves to the brain in one eye vs. the other.

Physical eye dominance is a matter of the timing of the information getting to the brain between the two eyes.

 

[WilliamK]

An ophthalmologist taught me what a physically dominant eye is

Optometrists reckon that the dominant eye is the one that sees the clearest. But the real dominant eye to a cuist is the one that sees the longest... after a few strokes it is the one that still sees when the other is tired.

 

[BC21]

There are different definitions floating around out there of eye dominance. Yours is not the physical one.

An ophthalmologist taught me what a physically dominant eye is. There are nerves that extend from each eye to our brain. Some of those nerves take a straight line to the brain. Others crisscross each other.

The eye that has more nerves that go straight to the brain than the other eye will send the information to the brain faster than the other eye. The severity of the dominance has to do with the amount of difference in straight back nerves to the brain in one eye vs. the other.

Physical eye dominance is a matter of the timing of the information getting to the brain between the two eyes.

I've never heard that definition/explanation. I've read and studied quite a bit about the brain, including vision processing and other sensory input. This explanation of eye dominance wasn't in any of the material I've read.

I guess opthomalogists and neurologists have different definitions. I'll stick with the neurologists and scientific research.

There is evidence that eye dominance often changes between tasks. This happens automatically, without conscious awareness. Also, studies have shown that people can actually change or switch their eye dominance with conscious practice and repetition. With your ophthalmologist's definition, these changes couldn't happen.

Maybe "physical" dominance is different from "motor" or "sighting" dominance. Motor dominance is what we experience when the brain relies on one eye more than the other simply to make vision processing more efficient.

What I mean by more efficient is this: Instead of relying 100% on processing the data provided by both eyes, the brain decreases vision processing time by designating one eye for the lead role and the other as a supporting role. Sometimes, depending on what we are focusing on, the brain will swap the roles, all in an effort to increase vision processing efficiency.

 

[boogieman]

There are different definitions floating around out there of eye dominance. Yours is not the physical one.

An ophthalmologist taught me what a physically dominant eye is. There are nerves that extend from each eye to our brain. Some of those nerves take a straight line to the brain. Others crisscross each other.

The eye that has more nerves that go straight to the brain than the other eye will send the information to the brain faster than the other eye. The severity of the dominance has to do with the amount of difference in straight back nerves to the brain in one eye vs. the other.

Physical eye dominance is a matter of the timing of the information getting to the brain between the two eyes.

You're correct on the neurological/physical definition of it. I'm talking about actively choosing which eye you allow to get the most information, or to focus with. Physical eye dominance is a thing but it's a baseline. You can actively use your eyes as a tool.

Depending on the situation even a non dominate eye can take the lead/priority. Like how if you get dirt in your eye you can still see with the other one. You can also choose which eye is taking in the most info by how you look at things.

In a default state on a straight in shot it would be good to put the cue directly under your dominate eye/personal vision center. When you are cutting a ball you get less distortion/optical illusions with a very slight turn of the eyes toward the cut direction. I'm not talking big head movement, you can even leave the cue wherever is comfortable, just the eyes. If you're cutting to the left, your left eye should be looking very slightly toward the pocket. This lets the right eye take dominance and minimizes optical illusions. Opposite for a cut to the right.

By slight I mean very slight. Instead of focusing on your contact point/fraction line you instead let the opposite eye from the cut (right eye on a left cut) focus on that point. It's kind of hard to explain in writing but it works and really does minimize optical illusions. I don't know how you would measure it, but it's more of a feeling than a noticeable length or head turn. It's letting one eye or the other take the lead on focus. Nothing big, just a slight bit.

The way the guy on this video shows the "dual image" when you focus on a distant object with a closer object in your vision... you basically want to favor one over the other. Cutting to the left you let your right eye line up on the line... if you hold a pencil up and focus on something 9' away the pencil will appear double... your right eye lines up to the pencil image on the left. The left eye lines up to the pencil image on the right. If you choose the correct one to focus on you'll be seeing correctly. If you just leave it to chance you can get optical illusions. It's why many feel stronger at cutting one way over the other. Once you get the correct eye taking the lead/focus there isn't a weak side.

It seems odd at first but after a week or two of practice at it it becomes second nature and you will line up with everything how it needs to be. I highly suggest holding up a pencil and doing the experiment he shows. There's a lot of good things in knowing that and playing around with the concept. Even something like a golf tee or pencil standing upright can be a great tool.

 

[BC21]

well, hell it won't post for me. YT channel is '6.5 Shooter'.

You should check out his shooting (rifle) videos. He hits a swinging golfball from over 400yds in one video!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

… it works and really does minimize optical illusions.

Can you describe the optical illusion(s) it minimizes? I can switch eyes too, but I don’t bother while playing because I never noticed a benefit.

pj
chgo

 

[bbb]

You're correct on the neurological/physical definition of it. I'm talking about actively choosing which eye you allow to get the most information, or to focus with. Physical eye dominance is a thing but it's a baseline. You can actively use your eyes as a tool.

Depending on the situation even a non dominate eye can take the lead/priority. Like how if you get dirt in your eye you can still see with the other one. You can also choose which eye is taking in the most info by how you look at things.

In a default state on a straight in shot it would be good to put the cue directly under your dominate eye/personal vision center. When you are cutting a ball you get less distortion/optical illusions with a very slight turn of the eyes toward the cut direction. I'm not talking big head movement, you can even leave the cue wherever is comfortable, just the eyes. If you're cutting to the left, your left eye should be looking very slightly toward the pocket. This lets the right eye take dominance and minimizes optical illusions. Opposite for a cut to the right.

By slight I mean very slight. Instead of focusing on your contact point/fraction line you instead let the opposite eye from the cut (right eye on a left cut) focus on that point. It's kind of hard to explain in writing but it works and really does minimize optical illusions. I don't know how you would measure it, but it's more of a feeling than a noticeable length or head turn. It's letting one eye or the other take the lead on focus. Nothing big, just a slight bit.

The way the guy on this video shows the "dual image" when you focus on a distant object with a closer object in your vision... you basically want to favor one over the other. Cutting to the left you let your right eye line up on the line... if you hold a pencil up and focus on something 9' away the pencil will appear double... your right eye lines up to the pencil image on the left. The left eye lines up to the pencil image on the right. If you choose the correct one to focus on you'll be seeing correctly. If you just leave it to chance you can get optical illusions. It's why many feel stronger at cutting one way over the other. Once you get the correct eye taking the lead/focus there isn't a weak side.

It seems odd at first but after a week or two of practice at it it becomes second nature and you will line up with everything how it needs to be. I highly suggest holding up a pencil and doing the experiment he shows. There's a lot of good things in knowing that and playing around with the concept. Even something like a golf tee or pencil standing upright can be a great tool.

is this what geno advocates?

 

[FranCrimi]

You're correct on the neurological/physical definition of it. I'm talking about actively choosing which eye you allow to get the most information, or to focus with. Physical eye dominance is a thing but it's a baseline. You can actively use your eyes as a tool.

Depending on the situation even a non dominate eye can take the lead/priority. Like how if you get dirt in your eye you can still see with the other one. You can also choose which eye is taking in the most info by how you look at things.

In a default state on a straight in shot it would be good to put the cue directly under your dominate eye/personal vision center. When you are cutting a ball you get less distortion/optical illusions with a very slight turn of the eyes toward the cut direction. I'm not talking big head movement, you can even leave the cue wherever is comfortable, just the eyes. If you're cutting to the left, your left eye should be looking very slightly toward the pocket. This lets the right eye take dominance and minimizes optical illusions. Opposite for a cut to the right.

By slight I mean very slight. Instead of focusing on your contact point/fraction line you instead let the opposite eye from the cut (right eye on a left cut) focus on that point. It's kind of hard to explain in writing but it works and really does minimize optical illusions. I don't know how you would measure it, but it's more of a feeling than a noticeable length or head turn. It's letting one eye or the other take the lead on focus. Nothing big, just a slight bit.

The way the guy on this video shows the "dual image" when you focus on a distant object with a closer object in your vision... you basically want to favor one over the other. Cutting to the left you let your right eye line up on the line... if you hold a pencil up and focus on something 9' away the pencil will appear double... your right eye lines up to the pencil image on the left. The left eye lines up to the pencil image on the right. If you choose the correct one to focus on you'll be seeing correctly. If you just leave it to chance you can get optical illusions. It's why many feel stronger at cutting one way over the other. Once you get the correct eye taking the lead/focus there isn't a weak side.

It seems odd at first but after a week or two of practice at it it becomes second nature and you will line up with everything how it needs to be. I highly suggest holding up a pencil and doing the experiment he shows. There's a lot of good things in knowing that and playing around with the concept. Even something like a golf tee or pencil standing upright can be a great tool.

So out of all the great pool players who ran hundreds of balls in one inning in 14.1 --- out of all the pool players who strung racks of 9 ball --- how many of them do this?

 

[BC21]

So out of all the great pool players who ran hundreds of balls in one inning in 14.1 --- out of all the pool players who strung racks of 9 ball --- how many of them do this?

That's an interesting question.

If any of them did it (switch eye dominance based on right or left cuts), they were likely unaware that it was happening. Studies on visual focus and pupil dilation indicate that this happens all the time in everyday situations, the brain switching the lead role from one eye to the other when needed, depending on the task or where our focus is directed. It happens automatically, subconsciously, and so we don't realize it's happening.

Vision processing research is an ongoing process. We still don't know exactly how it works, but there have been some great discoveries over the last couple of decades. For example, some of the latest research indicates that the eyes actually create and send small movie-like clips to the brain, rather than simply sending basic image data. This doesn't have a thing to do with looking at a pool shot, of course, because the little movie-clips involve looking at things that are in motion, like a car moving along the highway.

 

[FranCrimi]

That's an interesting question.

If any of them did it (switch eye dominance based on right or left cuts), they were likely unaware that it was happening. Studies on visual focus and pupil dilation indicates that this happens all the time in everyday situations, the brain switching the lead role from one eye to the other when needed, depending on the task or where our focus is directed. It happens automatically, subconsciously, and so we don't realize it's happening.

Vision processing research is an ongoing process. We still don't know exactly how it works, but there have been some great discoveries over the last couple of decades. For example, some of the latest research indicates that the eyes actually create and send small movie-like clips to the brain, rather than simply sending basic image data. This doesn't have a thing to do with looking at a pool shot, of course, because the little movie-clips involve looking at things that are in motion, like a car moving along the highway.

My guess would be none of the top players do this consciously. If they do it naturally, then there's probably no need to teach people how to do it, right?

 

[BC21]

My guess would be none of the top players do this consciously. If they do it naturally, then there's probably no need to teach people how to do it, right?

I don't really know whether or not there's a need to try to learn how to do it.

But I know I've read advice here that instructs players who struggle with eye dominance (or vision center) to consciously force yourself to get used to seeing certain shots (regardless of how awkward or visually off they look), until your muscle memory and vision start tying it all together into something that looks normal or right. So, maybe learning how to use the eyes differently on left and right cuts follows that same type of vision/brain reprogramming logic.

 

[boogieman]

Can you describe the optical illusion(s) it minimizes? I can switch eyes too, but I don’t bother while playing because I never noticed a benefit.

pj
chgo

It's why many feel stronger at cutting one way over the other.

The cuts. Most players show bias towards one side.

is this what geno advocates?

Similar but not exactly.

So out of all the great pool players who ran hundreds of balls in one inning in 14.1 --- out of all the pool players who strung racks of 9 ball --- how many of them do this?

Fran, with all due respect, I'm not going there. It's pretty obvious the answer to your question is: "I have no clue." How would one even know this? Can you please tell me what Henry Ford ate for lunch on August 19th, 1923?

If you feel like experimenting at the table and possibly learning something (or proving it's not for you) then have at it, if not, that's OK too. I'm not coming at this from a position of authority on the matter nor do I have the desire to prove anything. If I were to take a wild guess I'd say most people do it unconsciously after a certain amount of time. Better players may even to it naturally, but this is speculation. Most brute force it until their weak side is as good as their strong side. A player may be able to cut the brute force time down significantly if they're not fighting optical illusions.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Can you describe the optical illusion(s) it minimizes?

The cuts. Most players show bias towards one side.

That's a little vague to me, but no worries. Thanks.

pj
chgo

 

[Paul_#_]

Why not use a vision test where one eyeballs a straight line that is on a 1" thick paper or foam and followed by the line on paper one-piece-of-paper thick? A vision test that can be used on a pool table. Move head to allow one to see that line as a straight line --- that is the vision center for that shot line and probably a lot of others.

Shouldn't that be more accurate for how to align one's eyes to see a straight aiming line as straight? This seems easier and more accurate than 6.5-Shooter's video that uses a mirror outside of the pool table to find the vision center.

 

[FranCrimi]

The cuts. Most players show bias towards one side.


Similar but not exactly.


Fran, with all due respect, I'm not going there. It's pretty obvious the answer to your question is: "I have no clue." How would one even know this? Can you please tell me what Henry Ford ate for lunch on August 19th, 1923?

If you feel like experimenting at the table and possibly learning something (or proving it's not for you) then have at it, if not, that's OK too. I'm not coming at this from a position of authority on the matter nor do I have the desire to prove anything. If I were to take a wild guess I'd say most people do it unconsciously after a certain amount of time. Better players may even to it naturally, but this is speculation. Most brute force it until their weak side is as good as their strong side. A player may be able to cut the brute force time down significantly if they're not fighting optical illusions.

I get it, and yes, I also get that you're quoting someone else and you have no practical experience with this. So you may not want to go there, but I have to. I don't think that what you're saying has an effect on a person's physical dominant eye. That will still be an issue for the player and still will have to be addressed.

When you give one-on-one lessons like I do, to --- I don't know --- maybe a few thousand players over the last 30 years, patterns of solutions to problems emerge. During lessons, we would try things, and if it didn't work out, we'd try something else. This data base of solutions that teachers get from that is the huge advantage we have over one player working on his own game.

As a teacher, I find that if one particular fix consistently helps solve the same problem in several different players, it's considered a reliable solution. It's this experience, coupled with research ( such as spending time learning from an ophthalmologist as to what a physical dominant eye is), that helps me to be able to fix a player's visual issues at the table fairly quickly.

And you must always remember that solutions are only good solutions if they continue to work OVER TIME.