F/S: Pair of Mottey shafts

[buddha162]

There's no whining about my friend.

Then you proceed to whine:

My friend is the one who checked them and told me the sizes. I didn't check them as I am not the one with the calipers.

You are obviously not prepared to do business in an adult world. You can say whatever you want but if this doesn't go down the right way (read: you reimburse Joe for every last cent), your dealings on this forum will be tainted forever. Shit like this will not go away, not on AZ, and not on any other forum. I hope you understand this.

-Roger

 

[Nine Ball]

I shouldn't and won't be agreeing to taking ANY loss. I outright ASKED you before you ACCEPTED the payment what the shafts were. YOU told me that they were 12.7mm. They are not. It's not a bad situation on both ends, just YOUR end. It doesn't matter who made the shafts, the ivory doesn't matter, they are UNPLAYABLE to the guy you lied to.

"The size these shafts are is still within reason for play by many. Snooker players, Females, and just anyone who likes thinner shafts."

Then YOU need to find these people to buy the shafts. It has nothing to do with me. I am not chalking it up as a loss, and I don't give a crap about your "guarantee" it won't happen again. YOU need to make sure it don't happen NOW.

Joe

Joe,

I NEVER LIED TO YOU. You are trying to make it sound like I knew these shafts were the size they are and not what I trusted my friend to inform me of. It sounds like you are trying to say I did this to you on purpose. If you are not saying this then you need to choose your words a little better.

 

[Nine Ball]

Then you proceed to whine:

You are obviously not prepared to do business in an adult world. You can say whatever you want but if this doesn't go down the right way (read: you reimburse Joe for every last cent), your dealings on this forum will be tainted forever. Shit like this will not go away, not on AZ, and not on any other forum. I hope you understand this.

-Roger

This is the last reply you get from me Roger. This will not go away I know this. What is all this crap about the adult world? I have sold many cues on here and EVERYONE has always been more then HAPPY!!! This is the first time something like this has happened and it was because I trusted someone that I now know I shouldn't have. As far as all your take a stab at me comments like (The Adult World) I do not think they are needed.

 

[buddha162]

I have sold many cues on here and EVERYONE has always been more then HAPPY!!!

Josh, those deals went smoothly, it's when shit like this happens that you need to step up and be responsible. I was too harsh in my previous posts, and I'm sorry...but for your own sake, if you want to keep buying/selling things on here with your reputation intact, you should pick up the ball on this one, 100%.

-Roger

 

[runscott]

I buy from auction houses and others who take consignments (which is in effect what this is), and the seller in such cases is completely responsible for the item. No seller with any integrity would ever say "but my consignor told me...".

This situation is particularly deplorable, because the mystery friend wasn't mentioned when making the sell....and should not have been mentioned when Joe asked for a refund. That's just a lack of integrity, and age has nothing to do with it.

 

[cueaddicts]

LMAO....."but teacher, the dog ate my homework"

 

[Nine Ball]

LMAO....."but teacher, the dog ate my homework"

Thanks for the bad rep my friend. Keep your sarcastic comments coming. It's entertaining.

 

[axlrose]

a similar situation

I once purchased a nice, and somewhat pricey, custom cue from a dealer on the internet. The stated ferrule diameters were 12.75 mm each. When I received the cue, it looked very nice, and the shafts indeed felt smaller than 13 mm, but I did not actually check the diameters. Shortly thereafter, I decided to sell the cue in favor of a couple of other cues I owned at the time, so I listed it on eBay stating 12.75 mm ferrules as I had been told. It sold for a not bad dollar, but I was contacted soon after by the buyer, who is also a known cue dealer, who stated the ferrules were, in actuality, noticeably smaller than what I stated, after he used a digital caliper.

To make a long story short, he asked for a partial refund to make up for the shaft diameters being smaller than he was told and I am sure, at least in part, for being less attractive for resale. Ultimately, although I was misinformed by the original seller, I was the one who bore the burden of responsibility for listing the cue with the stated dimensions, and for rectifying any resulting buyer dissatisfaction for the transaction. His refund request was a very reasonable one, considering he could have just asked, legitimately, to return the entire cue. I did refund the requested portion and, to my knowledge, no harm was done between us. It did leave a bitter taste in my mouth for not verifying the diameters as soon as I received the cue, but it is not a lesson I will soon forget.

In a nutshell, it should never be the buyer who assumes any loss when a seller, either knowingly or unknowingly, misrepresents an item. Without consistent integrity on the part of the seller to look after the legitimate needs of his customer, there is no way for any of us to feel good or secure about dealing over the internet with people we are likely never to meet face to face.

Ryan

 

[Nine Ball]

I once purchased a nice, and somewhat pricey, custom cue from a dealer on the internet. The stated ferrule diameters were 12.75 mm each. When I received the cue, it looked very nice, and the shafts indeed felt smaller than 13 mm, but I did not actually check the diameters. Shortly thereafter, I decided to sell the cue in favor of a couple of other cues I owned at the time, so I listed it on eBay stating 12.75 mm ferrules as I had been told. It sold for a not bad dollar, but I was contacted soon after by the buyer, who is also a known cue dealer, who stated the ferrules were, in actuality, noticeably smaller than what I stated, after he used a digital caliper.

To make a long story short, he asked for a partial refund to make up for the shaft diameters being smaller than he was told and I am sure, at least in part, for being less attractive for resale. Ultimately, although I was misinformed by the original seller, I was the one who bore the burden of responsibility for listing the cue with the stated dimensions, and for rectifying any resulting buyer dissatisfaction for the transaction. His refund request was a very reasonable one, considering he could have just asked, legitimately, to return the entire cue. I did refund the requested portion and, to my knowledge, no harm was done between us. It did leave a bitter taste in my mouth for not verifying the diameters as soon as I received the cue, but it is not a lesson I will soon forget.

In a nutshell, it should never be the buyer who assumes any loss when a seller, either knowingly or unknowingly, misrepresents an item. Without consistent integrity on the part of the seller to look after the legitimate needs of his customer, there is no way for any of us to feel good or secure about dealing over the internet with people we are likely never to meet face to face.

Ryan

Understood. I simply do not have the whole amount he is asking for. All I can really do is $100 out of my own pocket and that is why I offered that amount.

 

[runscott]

Sellers - get a friggin Starrett digital caliper! Buyers - ask questions

...Ultimately, although I was misinformed by the original seller, I was the one who bore the burden of responsibility for listing the cue with the stated dimensions, and for rectifying any resulting buyer dissatisfaction for the transaction. ...In a nutshell, it should never be the buyer who assumes any loss when a seller, either knowingly or unknowingly, misrepresents an item. Without consistent integrity on the part of the seller to look after the legitimate needs of his customer, there is no way for any of us to feel good or secure about dealing over the internet with people we are likely never to meet face to face.

Ryan

Well-put Ryan. I've had at least four sets of shafts arrive noticeably smaller than advertised. Get a digital caliper guys! Three cases were AZ sellers, and in two cases I just sucked it up and re-sold the cues (or shafts) at a loss. I didn't want to make waves on the board, as the sellers were very reputable here - it was admittedly a big surprise, and I continue to do business with them...but ask lots of questions now.

The third time it happened, I thought "sh*t! - what is up with these guys!" and I sent it back - the damned thing was way thin AND an inch short! The seller, who jumps any time anyone on this board asks about getting a shaft made, acted like I was being picky...but did take it back. Luckily, his misrepresentation only cost me $10 shipping.

The most recent situation just occurred (not an AZ'er) and when I told him his 12.75mm shaft was actually 11.92mm, he was great about it - offered to pay for a new shaft or give me a complete refund. I took the refund because the maker of the original shaft died years ago.

Here are some questions to always ask AZ'ers when buying cues and will help you tell if you are buying something that is being 'dumped'. I recently bought a cue that had a shaft that didn't match the butt, and the other shaft wasn't even made by the original cue-maker. I felt obligated to disclose details not divulged to me, and took a $100 bath. Live and learn. Look for characteristics common to the cue-makers cues - if there are discrepancies based on the following questions, ask more questions.

1. What is the shaft length and diameter? (obvious)
2. Take off the bumper and email me a pic (to tell if butt has been tampered with - also compare bumper and screw to what cuemaker normally uses)
3. Has it been re-finished? If so, who? (refinish could mean tampering with other stuff as well)
4. Are the shafts original to the cue? (have them compare ringwork on shafts to joint)
5. Do the shaft collars match up perfectly with the joint? (could be fine - extra shaft ordered without sending in butt - but might indicate problem)
6. Weight and balance point (extremely forward-balanced - 20-21 - can mean wood drilled out of butt)

 

[classiccues]

Joe,

I NEVER LIED TO YOU. You are trying to make it sound like I knew these shafts were the size they are and not what I trusted my friend to inform me of. It sounds like you are trying to say I did this to you on purpose. If you are not saying this then you need to choose your words a little better.

Josh,
You can try to spin this any way you want, but I asked YOU if they were in fact 12.7mm, and YOU emphatically said YES they are. It's all here in black and white. They are not 12.7, you know what that means.. you lied. I don't need to choose my words more carefully, I am calling it as I and anyone reading this is seeing it.

JV

 

[classiccues]

I buy from auction houses and others who take consignments (which is in effect what this is), and the seller in such cases is completely responsible for the item. No seller with any integrity would ever say "but my consignor told me...".

This situation is particularly deplorable, because the mystery friend wasn't mentioned when making the sell....and should not have been mentioned when Joe asked for a refund. That's just a lack of integrity, and age has nothing to do with it.

Bingo.

JV

 

[classiccues]

In a nutshell, it should never be the buyer who assumes any loss when a seller, either knowingly or unknowingly, misrepresents an item. Without consistent integrity on the part of the seller to look after the legitimate needs of his customer, there is no way for any of us to feel good or secure about dealing over the internet with people we are likely never to meet face to face.

Ryan

BINGO...

JV

 

[classiccues]

Well-put Ryan. I've had at least four sets of shafts arrive noticeably smaller than advertised. Get a digital caliper guys! Three cases were AZ sellers, and in two cases I just sucked it up and re-sold the cues (or shafts) at a loss. I didn't want to make waves on the board, as the sellers were very reputable here - it was admittedly a big surprise, and I continue to do business with them...but ask lots of questions now.

The third time it happened, I thought "sh*t! - what is up with these guys!" and I sent it back - the damned thing was way thin AND an inch short! The seller, who jumps any time anyone on this board asks about getting a shaft made, acted like I was being picky...but did take it back. Luckily, his misrepresentation only cost me $10 shipping.

The most recent situation just occurred (not an AZ'er) and when I told him his 12.75mm shaft was actually 11.92mm, he was great about it - offered to pay for a new shaft or give me a complete refund. I took the refund because the maker of the original shaft died years ago.

Here are some questions to always ask AZ'ers when buying cues and will help you tell if you are buying something that is being 'dumped'. I recently bought a cue that had a shaft that didn't match the butt, and the other shaft wasn't even made by the original cue-maker. I felt obligated to disclose details not divulged to me, and took a $100 bath. Live and learn. Look for characteristics common to the cue-makers cues - if there are discrepancies based on the following questions, ask more questions.

1. What is the shaft length and diameter? (obvious)
2. Take off the bumper and email me a pic (to tell if butt has been tampered with - also compare bumper and screw to what cuemaker normally uses)
3. Has it been re-finished? If so, who? (refinish could mean tampering with other stuff as well)
4. Are the shafts original to the cue? (have them compare ringwork on shafts to joint)
5. Do the shaft collars match up perfectly with the joint? (could be fine - extra shaft ordered without sending in butt - but might indicate problem)
6. Weight and balance point (extremely forward-balanced - 20-21 - can mean wood drilled out of butt)

I asked all the right questions, that I needed for this transaction. I guess the only question I didn't ask was the integrity of the seller.

JV

 

[classiccues]

Joe,

Well, I am making an attempt to resolve this situation the best I can. Your being very stubborn. I am taking a loss greater then yours here. You have came to within a $75 loss out of $300 with the option still open that my friend could possibly come up with the other $75 that would go straight to you. I know he does not have the money now but in just saying when he did have it to give. I am making an attempt. I don't know what else to say. It's just a bad situation for both of us.

Again, the bad situation is on you and your friend. I am not being stubborn. This is how deals work, I shouldn't have to wait for your friend to DO ANYTHING. But I will tell you what I'll do.. send me your playing cue, the case its in, or something equally as valuable, to hold UNTIL you send me (until your friend comes up with) the 300.00 as soon as I receive payment, I will send the item back to you. Thats the only offer you will get from me. And its more than fair. I mean really, your "friend" used the money to get something out of hock, the same should apply to you.

JV

 

[twowayshot]

I normally don't like to get involved but what baffles me is that Josh just sold a cue not more than two days ago. I believe anyone on here would take the money from that sale no matter what plans I originally had for the cash and clear this matter up. DO THE RIGHT THING...

 

[Nine Ball]

Josh,
You can try to spin this any way you want, but I asked YOU if they were in fact 12.7mm, and YOU emphatically said YES they are. It's all here in black and white. They are not 12.7, you know what that means.. you lied. I don't need to choose my words more carefully, I am calling it as I and anyone reading this is seeing it.

JV

I DID NOT LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I DID NOT KNOW THESE SHAFT WERE THIS SIZE AND NOT WHAT MY FRIEND TOLD ME THEY WERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nine Ball]

Look in the mirror before you try to discredit someone

I asked all the right questions, that I needed for this transaction. I guess the only question I didn't ask was the integrity of the seller.

JV

Joe,


You know your so big to question me and what I stand for. Why don't you go ahead and let these fine members know how you totally ripped me off on that Nomina cue you sold me. Yeah go ahead and do that! It doesn't matter that it was an X amount of time ago it still happened and you were the one who still did it!!! I wasn't going to bring this up at all but I feel it should be known since you are trying to question the type of person I am! I'm sure you will try to spin this off as something else but we both know what you did on that cue. I bought a cue from Joe Van that was supposed to be good condition cue. I got the cue and the shaft was warped, It didn't match up with the joint, and the cue had dings in it. Now before you want to say "Blah,Blah" I didn't say anything about it then, I was so unsatisfied and I only paid $200 for the cue so I just gave it to my girlfriend because she didn't know the difference between a good cue or garbage like you sold me. I said I would not deal with the likes again. After you got the shafts and wrote me back I then went and viewed your site, I instantly recognized your e-mail address. So before you may want to try and say the shafts have something to do with how you ripped me off on a cue IT DOESN'T. I wasn't going to tell anyone on here about that time you ripped me off but when you start to try and discredit the person that I am, Then that's why the line has been crossed. Before you may want to try and say it wasn't you.. I questioned Joe about the cue before I ever told him there was a problem with it. He admitted is was probably him because he is the only Joe Van selling cues. Once I told him what happened with that cue then he tried to say that maybe it was not him! Too funny.. It was you for sure when you thought I was giving a compliment but when you found out the person you ripped off didn't forget, Then you tried to say maybe it wasn't you. hah.. Anyway, I thought this should be known since you are trying to discredit me. Look in the mirror..

 

[Nine Ball]

I normally don't like to get involved but what baffles me is that Josh just sold a cue not more than two days ago. I believe anyone on here would take the money from that sale no matter what plans I originally had for the cash and clear this matter up. DO THE RIGHT THING...

Yes, I sold a cue. The buyer of that cue will be extremely happy too!! As far as the money, I have bills. I have offered all I can offer at this point in time. He is so close to all his money back yet he wants to keep this situation going. Anyone can read that in the posts. Don't take it the wrong way twowayshot, I'm not trying to offend you. I have no problem with you. I'm just saying.

 

[classiccues]

Joe,


You know your so big to question me and what I stand for. Why don't you go ahead and let these fine members know how you totally ripped me off on that Nomina cue you sold me. Yeah go ahead and do that! It doesn't matter that it was an X amount of time ago it still happened and you were the one who still did it!!! I wasn't going to bring this up at all but I feel it should be known since you are trying to question the type of person I am! I'm sure you will try to spin this off as something else but we both know what you did on that cue. I bought a cue from Joe Van that was supposed to be good condition cue. I got the cue and the shaft was warped, It didn't match up with the joint, and the cue had dings in it. Now before you want to say "Blah,Blah" I didn't say anything about it then, I was so unsatisfied and I only paid $200 for the cue so I just gave it to my girlfriend because she didn't know the difference between a good cue or garbage like you sold me. I said I would not deal with the likes again. After you got the shafts and wrote me back I then went and viewed your site, I instantly recognized your e-mail address. So before you may want to try and say the shafts have something to do with how you ripped me off on a cue IT DOESN'T. I wasn't going to tell anyone on here about that time you ripped me off but when you start to try and discredit the person that I am, Then that's why the line has been crossed. Before you may want to try and say it wasn't you.. I questioned Joe about the cue before I ever told him there was a problem with it. He admitted is was probably him because he is the only Joe Van selling cues. Once I told him what happened with that cue then he tried to say that maybe it was not him! Too funny.. It was you for sure when you thought I was giving a compliment but when you found out the person you ripped off didn't forget, Then you tried to say maybe it wasn't you. hah.. Anyway, I thought this should be known since you are trying to discredit me. Look in the mirror..

Really Josh.. this was an ebay transaction right? Did you ever e-mail me about it then? I have 100% positive feedback. Doesn't sound like it was to big an issue then. You were never ripped off, the cue would have been as described, probably why I didn't hear anything at that time.

Joe