Failure as A Team Captain

oldplayer

oldplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i am the team captain for a APA Master's league team. as such, IMHO, it is my responsibility to get our team in 1st or 2nd place. last night was the last night for the session. our team was in second place but only by 2 points and only the top 2 places were "in the money". knowing that we don't play at the same level every time, it was important to find out who was "on their game" for the night. we were matched against a weak team and the 3 rd place team was playing the 1st place team so things were in our favor to keep that spot. we showed up a couple of hours for practice. luckily I was on y game so it was clear that I would post myself against some player but did not know which one at the time. one of my team members (we will call him "J"), was just not playing well that night so I decided that I would not play him at all. we play 3 matches with each being a race to 7. the other team posted 1st and posted the guy who won the 9 ball tournament that past Saturday out of 57 players.....so the handwriting was on the wall, I posted myself against him as I had beat him before. that left my strongest player against their's and he should win or at least go hill hill. that left my next to best player to play their weakest player, that was a no brainer and all said and done. we should be in 2 nd place by the end of the night. after I had won my match, "J" stated *****ing and moaning about wanting to play. I told him, that after playing him during the practice session, that I thought his game was "off" and I probably was not going to post him that night. after his continuing begging I saw an opportunity to playa practice game with their weak player and told "J" that I would play a practice game with this guy and see if his game was good or bad for that night. while I was waiting, "J" yells out to me and the guy, "hey, we could play on the practice table and start another match"....I held up 5 fingers and told "J" to wait just 5 minutes to give me a chance to play this guy. instead, "J" walks over to the table and basically posts himself and tells the team's player to "lets start"!!!!!!! :eek: rather than telling him to sit down and that I would post when I was ready, I relented and allowed him to play. I think to you can guess what happened next. as in practice, his game was "off" and he lost miserably (7-3). there is no doubt that my 2nd best player, if not winning the match, could have at least went hill hill (6-6).we got beat out of 2nd place by ONE lousy game! so, IMO I failed the team by not standing up to "J".....he not only usurped my authority but demonstrated his not being a team player. am I wrong here? I'm feeling pretty beaten up this morning, what would you have done?
 
You're not a failure

oldplayer said:
i am the team captain for a APA Master's league team. as such, IMHO, it is my responsibility to get our team in 1st or 2nd place. last night was the last night for the session. our team was in second place but only by 2 points and only the top 2 places were "in the money". knowing that we don't play at the same level every time, it was important to find out who was "on their game" for the night. we were matched against a weak team and the 3 rd place team was playing the 1st place team so things were in our favor to keep that spot. we showed up a couple of hours for practice. luckily I was on y game so it was clear that I would post myself against some player but did not know which one at the time. one of my team members (we will call him "J"), was just not playing well that night so I decided that I would not play him at all. we play 3 matches with each being a race to 7. the other team posted 1st and posted the guy who won the 9 ball tournament that past Saturday out of 57 players.....so the handwriting was on the wall, I posted myself against him as I had beat him before. that left my strongest player against their's and he should win or at least go hill hill. that left my next to best player to play their weakest player, that was a no brainer and all said and done. we should be in 2 nd place by the end of the night. after I had won my match, "J" stated *****ing and moaning about wanting to play. I told him, that after playing him during the practice session, that I thought his game was "off" and I probably was not going to post him that night. after his continuing begging I saw an opportunity to playa practice game with their weak player and told "J" that I would play a practice game with this guy and see if his game was good or bad for that night. while I was waiting, "J" yells out to me and the guy, "hey, we could play on the practice table and start another match"....I held up 5 fingers and told "J" to wait just 5 minutes to give me a chance to play this guy. instead, "J" walks over to the table and basically posts himself and tells the team's player to "lets start"!!!!!!! :eek: rather than telling him to sit down and that I would post when I was ready, I relented and allowed him to play. I think to you can guess what happened next. as in practice, his game was "off" and he lost miserably (7-3). there is no doubt that my 2nd best player, if not winning the match, could have at least went hill hill (6-6).we got beat out of 2nd place by ONE lousy game! so, IMO I failed the team by not standing up to "J".....he not only usurped my authority but demonstrated his not being a team player. am I wrong here? I'm feeling pretty beaten up this morning, what would you have done?
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You're not a failure. Being an APA captain, IMO, can be a nightmare.

I prefer systems where every player plays every player on the other team. It avoids many of the problems you mention, plus I think it's gives more meaning to individual averages...not to mention you simply get the experience of meeting and playing more people.
 
Is apa and primarily for fun. Sounds like you did everything you could short of a confrontation with your one team member. I think I'd make sure he wasn't on the team next session.
 
I can see your point. I'd be upset with myself if I had done the same thing. But, it's over and nothing can be done about it now.

However, if he was on my spring team, I'd have a private conversation with him and in no uncertain terms tell him how you run the team and choosing who plays. If he wants to argue, at that very moment-kick him off the team and move on.

It appears your willingness to "not be wrong" overtook your duties to make a decision and stand by it - right or wrong.

As captain it is up to you to make the decisions, and live with the results. Don't blame J for your decision to not make a decision.

That's my take "from the bleachers"

Merry Christmas :)
 
He would be off my team. I'm all about the win :) I preach to my players if they need 3 or 4 balls get them then worry about winning.
 
Captain is a position of leadership. Your teammates had enough faith in you to name you their captain so next time just lead. On the Masters team I'm on the captain discusses strategy with all of us but the final decision is hers. You're there to win for the team, don't let anyone run over you. If they don't like how you run it they can name a new captain or find a new team but stay true to your strategy and even if you lose you did your best.
 
Team

As a member of a team, the most important thing IS the team and that means making some sacrifices for the benefit of all.

A member who places his priorities above that of the team is a detriment to the team.

You handled this properly on league night. If you haven't done so already, you need to have a candid discussion with him.
 
Type79 said:
As a member of a team, the most important thing IS the team and that means making some sacrifices for the benefit of all.

A member who places his priorities above that of the team is a detriment to the team.

You handled this properly on league night. If you haven't done so already, you need to have a candid discussion with him.[/QUOTE]

forthwith you can be assured. I just wanted some feedback from the forum and I appreciate the responses. :thumbup:
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I wouldn't put it soley on you that's for sure. I'm a captain too and that sounds like a nightmare. He already told the guy he was going to play and told him to start, your only option would have been to make him look like somewhat of a dumbass ( Beings he was acting like one ) and tell him to sit his ass down he isn't playing or let it slide and hope for the best. Tough to say what I would do in that situation but I would make it known after the situation that you are either going to do what the team decides or you are off the team. Everyone has input on my team and I don't base decisions on just what I want, I give everyone the chance to explain their case and we will come to a decision. You made a good point that he wasn't shooting well in practice ,he should have accepted it and shot a few racks after league so he could still get some shooting in. Hard to judge off this single situation but doesn't sound like someone I would want on me team.
 
I think any action you describe was flawed, He went over to play a practice game that turned into a match that counted , due to his calling it, What authority did he have to do that,?
You were right in your gut feeling he was off his game and did what you thought was right, BUT, having him go over and do a Practice game with the player , put your go to player in jeopardy, Sitting while the other team gets a free test game against your player, ...
So , even if "J" practiced, went with your call not to play him, your #3 was going to be at a disadvantage and the results may have been just the same..

My 2cents
 
Willi Makaball said:
I think any action you describe was flawed, He went over to play a practice game that turned into a match that counted , due to his calling it, What authority did he have to do that,?
You were right in your gut feeling he was off his game and did what you thought was right, BUT, having him go over and do a Practice game with the player , put your go to player in jeopardy, Sitting while the other team gets a free test game against your player, ...
So , even if "J" practiced, went with your call not to play him, your #3 was going to be at a disadvantage and the results may have been just the same..

My 2cents
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You misread what he wrote. He was going to play the practice game, not J.
 
Passive Aggressive BS. Sounds like the guy just wanted to play and didn't care how it affected the team. On top of that, by loudly suggesting that you start a second match, then walking over and starting the match himself, he put you in a no-win situation. You either quietly accept it or start a scene.

Whether he won or not, I wouldn't have him back on my team.
 
krupa said:
Passive Aggressive BS. Sounds like the guy just wanted to play and didn't care how it affected the team. On top of that, by loudly suggesting that you start a second match, then walking over and starting the match himself, he put you in a no-win situation. You either quietly accept it or start a scene.

Whether he won or not, I wouldn't have him back on my team.
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This.

He basically forced you to accept it, otherwise the whole team starts arguing and what not and makes the whole team look bad. After thinking about it I don't see how you could have done it different.
 
How did your other teammates view this? How did your co- captain, and coach feel about this move by your teammate?
 
Are you wrong? Tough call. As a former captain I can tell you that I'm a big believer in the "you dance with the one you brought" theory. If 'J' was player that under normal circumstances would have produced points for you then maybe he deserves the benefit of the doubt and has earned your trust. A bad practice session doesn't necessarily equate to a poor competition performance. But as the captain sometimes you just have to go with your gut and the fact is maybe 'J' won all the games there were for your team to win in that match, there's no real way to know. Maybe the guy that you would have put up would not have fared as well as 'J'. What I always asked of my players was to be honest in their evaluation of themselves and that can be asking alot of people with huge egos like pool players. If they're not "feeling it" I need them to tell me, however, that being said, sometimes we were wrong. That's just how it works. What I would question, if anything, is your team management, but that might be the way you've always done it and it works for you. My best player would rarely ever play the other teams best player. To many 'if's' in that situation.
As the captain I think you are far from failure. For whatever reason, 'J' was gonna play, I think you had to trust him. This time it didn't work out. I'm sure it's not the first time the wrong player got put up, I'm sure it won't be the last. This time it sounds like may have cost you guys a few bucks. Perhaps that's something the team can address on a personal level with 'J', you know...
 
When you let it slide it was over. Now that you lost it matters, that sucks, but there is no reason to second guess yourself.

If you want to second guess yourself you could have huddled your 4 man team and decided together if he would play. He should not be the one to make the call, that's for sure. If he can't play under pressure he probably just ended up sharking himself.

Like someone else said the only question is does this guy play on your team next year.
 
The op is assuming facts which are not known. Specifically the second best player would have at least taken the match to hill/hill.

Did the second best player sit out or did he play another match?

But, if you did mess up look at the bright side. The Mosconi Cup captain I'm sure is making a lot more than you and look at the results.
 
I don't know what your team's relationship is with player-J, but if he is a friend and can step up and play a little, I
would keep him on the team.
Yes it's aggravating, but in reality you are mad at yourself, and "J" was just trying to
display some leadership, in a wayward sort of way.
The other team's captain sounds like a jerk, but I wouldn't hold this against your player.
 
Since it was the team that was screwed over, the team should decide on letting this guy stay or move on.
When my captain asks if I want to play, I say I will play if you want me to. Do what's right for the team. I can play or not play. Doesnt matter to me.
 
Yeah, it's your fault. Sorry to be so blunt, but you asked. You made your decision, but when J starting b1tching you began to doubt your decision and starting looking for ways to get him in. Basically, you were telling him if the other guys game is off, you will J play,,,,what ?? Put a good player against the other team weak guy and take the win.

So, it looked like you were caving, and J decided he will make it official by setting,up the game, you left too much slack in the rope, and he tightned it. You are the captain, and you could have told the other captain I will let you know my decision, and J is not making the call....

I thought it was beyond silly that you thought you had to play the other guy first before making a decision?? Apologize to your team for letting them down, and tell J he is off the team next time he does not step off when he is told he is not playing.
 
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