Fallout from a smoking ban!!!
- Thread starter Snapshot9
- Start date
It sounds like there are other issues at hand from that article...
I can't speak for the overall volume in Arizona, but for the tournaments I attend, I have not seen any decline in the number of players, or the number of people in the establishment.
What I have noticed is more people downing thier drink as they head toward the door to to smoke a cigarette.
The only drawback I have seen is for establishments that are unable to provide some sort of smoking area out side...
The establishments that are built in mini strip malls with no real place to go other than standing in the parking lot risking getting run over have now been placed in a unfair situation.
I can see the law suits of the future.....(In Arizona)....I was forced to stand out in the parking lot in 120 degree sun light and now I have skin cancer...
Sorry.....does not really apply to pool players since most of you are vampires anyway....
What I have noticed is more people downing thier drink as they head toward the door to to smoke a cigarette.
The only drawback I have seen is for establishments that are unable to provide some sort of smoking area out side...
The establishments that are built in mini strip malls with no real place to go other than standing in the parking lot risking getting run over have now been placed in a unfair situation.
I can see the law suits of the future.....(In Arizona)....I was forced to stand out in the parking lot in 120 degree sun light and now I have skin cancer...
Sorry.....does not really apply to pool players since most of you are vampires anyway....
i just cant believe that a smoking ban really would cause a solid business to have to close down. in massachusetts we've had no smoking in public places for years now. it completely levels the playing field. its not like you can just go to another pool hall and smoke (or bar for that matter). the smokers all just head outside, feed their need and come back in and shoot. i mean really, if they want to shoot pool where else are they gonna go? are they gonna quit pool b/c they cant smoke inside anymore?
brian
brian
BRKNRUN said:
I can see the counter argument for anyone who feels the need to attempt the above.
With the passing of recent legislation, one should have expected the possibility of being forced to stand outside to smoke and taken the necessary precautions. (sun block, hat, etc.) It is also not the establishments responsibility to provide sunblock and other UV preventative measures for you, as they aren't forcing you to smoke in the first place.
Your habit, your responsibility
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Why did they ban it anyway? Shouldn’t pool owners be the deciding factor in a decision like that, its their pool hall..
There are a lot of forces at work here that are beyond a regular pool players control. I live in a split city, (2cities that have no real dividing line) that recently passed a smoking bans. One city did what I call a hard ban: No smoking in public building an jan 1st period. The other city did a soft ban, no smoking jan 1st, unless you submit plans for an outdoor area, then mar 1 if you havent secured your funding/finalized your plans, and july 1st to get it all done. I think the 2nd scenario wasnt very fair as it created a vastly unlevel playing field for a lot of businesses. However our state has now stepped in a banned smoking in the entire state effective jan 1. I think that smoking bans are a trend that is only gaining momentum and short of getting a player elected to office there isnt much we can do about it. Our most recent ban was put to a publice vote and passed by roughly 65%. Smokers are not a voting majority in this country so its going to be very hard to defeat these bans.
pocketspeed said:
4 or 5 years ago there was a fellow on RSB named Cambell who had a pool room in Massachusetts when a smoking ban went into affect in his area. He stated that he lost over 40 % of his business in the first week to another room a few miles away who wasn't banned from allowing smoking. Every week he told of how his business was failing as not just the smokers went to the other room but so did all of their friends. After 6 months he closed up and sold all of the tables and equipment at auction. This was after being successfully run for 15 years.
Ohio just started enforcing a no smoking law a few weeks ago and all of Cincinnati's rooms business is way down. Many are now just crossing the river to Kentucky's rooms where smoking is still allowed. Many of the bars in the area are saying that they have been affected also.
I don't know about other areas or rooms but 4 or 5 years ago people were saying that only about 30% of people smoke. I went to the room here in Cincinnati that I frequented at the time and took a little survey over a weekend and found that about 80% of their patrons smoked. Might just be that room or that area or maybe just that weekend but those are the results that I got.
Dick
rhncue said:
i dont know all the details about that and i am not a smoker, but if you lost 40% of your business to another room, do you think it might be b/c in the end the other room was just a better place to play? like i said, i am not a smoker so maybe i need the smokers perspective here. would you really drive out of your way, and play at a room with inferior equipment or conditions just to be able to smoke a few without having to go outside? i can see initially losing some business if you could play somewhere outside the bans limits, but in the end wouldnt you end up playing in the better room?
brian
every one here is talking about pool players forget the pool players you dont make any money off of them. Its the recreational pool players that count if there are four people going out and two of them smoke they are all going to the other pool hall thats why it kills your business.. just my two cents
yeah, what ever... I'm so tired of hearing about this or that pool hall or other business went under because of a smoking ban.Snapshot9 said:
Truth be told, nobody is ever caught by suprise by these by-laws, there is always plenty of time to change your business, start appealling other clientel, providing alternate arrangements for smokers(I've seen bus stop type shelters).
It's a weak business owner that blames a smoking ban for his failure to plan for it.
Enough said.
SUPERSTAR said:I can see the counter argument for anyone who feels the need to attempt the above.
With the passing of recent legislation, one should have expected the possibility of being forced to stand outside to smoke and taken the necessary precautions. (sun block, hat, etc.) It is also not the establishments responsibility to provide sunblock and other UV preventative measures for you, as they aren't forcing you to smoke in the first place. Your habit, your responsibility
I think that is what the bar owners are saying about non smokers going to a bar.....
....Who the hells side am I on anyway...I don't even smoke!!!! By the way...Regarding your Avitar.....Love those....those..........Lips...
Excellent Point Brian!!!!
80% of this country is non-smoking. Eventually all 50 states will have no-smoking laws. The Workman's Comp insurance and health insurance premiums are getting so high businesses MUST comply in order to stay in business. Or face lawsuits for providing an unsafe work environment. ( For 8-Ball Player) If a pool room has 50% smokers as customers; then something there is off. They are driving off the non-smokers by not having a decent air cleaning system or not doing basic cleaning and maintenance. Most of these businesses that go under have 6 mos to a years notice that the smoking ban is coming. I wonder how hard they REALLY tried to go after the non-smoking demographic.
If smokers are (in theory) going to drive all over creation to find a place to smoke..why wouldnt NON-smokers, who outnumber them 5 to 1, be willing to do the same? Movie theatres did not go under when they banned smoking...Neither did airlines. Pool rooms are going under in non smoking states too right now. St. Louis rooms are going under or converting to clubs. No smoking ban here yet. The old vision of pool rooms has not been a viable business model for a long time. You have to make money off drinks and food and a pro shop and poker machines and candy and snacks etc etc etc. There is not enough money in pool to pay the rent.
The pool community should be BEGGING for non-smoking rooms. The smoke causes so many problems with making the cloth sticky, keeping humidity up, raising the temperature of the room, clogging the air conditioners, raising electric bills, increasing the room owners expenses (which YOU pay for). A non smoking room will have cleaner equipment, cleaner food areas, better playing tables. Why wouldnt this be a good idea? Doesnt anyone want to play in a cleaner room on tables without burn marks all over them?
pocketspeed said:
80% of this country is non-smoking. Eventually all 50 states will have no-smoking laws. The Workman's Comp insurance and health insurance premiums are getting so high businesses MUST comply in order to stay in business. Or face lawsuits for providing an unsafe work environment. ( For 8-Ball Player) If a pool room has 50% smokers as customers; then something there is off. They are driving off the non-smokers by not having a decent air cleaning system or not doing basic cleaning and maintenance. Most of these businesses that go under have 6 mos to a years notice that the smoking ban is coming. I wonder how hard they REALLY tried to go after the non-smoking demographic.
If smokers are (in theory) going to drive all over creation to find a place to smoke..why wouldnt NON-smokers, who outnumber them 5 to 1, be willing to do the same? Movie theatres did not go under when they banned smoking...Neither did airlines. Pool rooms are going under in non smoking states too right now. St. Louis rooms are going under or converting to clubs. No smoking ban here yet. The old vision of pool rooms has not been a viable business model for a long time. You have to make money off drinks and food and a pro shop and poker machines and candy and snacks etc etc etc. There is not enough money in pool to pay the rent.
The pool community should be BEGGING for non-smoking rooms. The smoke causes so many problems with making the cloth sticky, keeping humidity up, raising the temperature of the room, clogging the air conditioners, raising electric bills, increasing the room owners expenses (which YOU pay for). A non smoking room will have cleaner equipment, cleaner food areas, better playing tables. Why wouldnt this be a good idea? Doesnt anyone want to play in a cleaner room on tables without burn marks all over them?
smoke or don't smoke
The bottom line it should be up to the business owner. He has the investment and will follow the public's demands. I do smoke but will happily follow the owner's requirements. After all it's his property and this country is supposed to have property rights. Let the owners decide how to run their businesses and let the government mind their own damned business. I don't want "BIG BROTHER" taking care of me.
The bottom line it should be up to the business owner. He has the investment and will follow the public's demands. I do smoke but will happily follow the owner's requirements. After all it's his property and this country is supposed to have property rights. Let the owners decide how to run their businesses and let the government mind their own damned business. I don't want "BIG BROTHER" taking care of me.
8-Ball Player said:
You have cut to the core of the issue. Any business person who invests their money into a business should be free to cater to their customers' desires. If the customers demand a non-smoking room, and the owner doesn't provide it, he stands to lose business. He (or she) shouldn't be forced to ban smoking. It should be an individual business decision based on the demands of their customers. That is how free enteprise works.
Steve
pocketspeed said:
So, you think that the 40% decided the other room was better
the week the smoking ban went into effect, and the ban had nothing
to do with it?????????
The short answer to your question is absolutely and categoricly NOOO.
ps: this is a question that could only be asked by a non-smoker.
Dale - a non-smoker
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