Can you point me to the exercise? I've looked but may have overlooked them through all the garbage in this thread. Cheers.
Fear of Feel
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
I don't get how you get that from anything I've said.
As I've said many times, I'm not biased against any system - I just disagree that any of them are "new dimensions" in aiming that can violate the simple rules of geometry and reason. Those kinds of claims are almost always made about systems involving "pivots" - that may be why it seems they're being "lumped together".
pj
chgo
That's pretty strong to not look at the OB at all while pivoting especially for this early stage of learning. I'm impressed. Don't worry about banks. Just start setting shots up all over the table to learn some variables. For instance, distance between the CB and OB plays a role in the choice of aim line. You'll see what I mean.
It might also be the ticket for those trying to match up equal and opposite contact points since the CP on the front of the CB is a guess, imaginary ghost balls or ghost ball centers, or last second hit and hope divine intuition feel from the Gods of pool.
Don't worry Neil, most won't get on the table to try it. It will be the same keyboarding cowboy stuff and has already started.
You got it Pidge, my pleasure. Here it is in the entirety. (to a point) Do this first and we'll progress to more acute cut angles as well as CB to OB distance. I'll bend over backwards to answer any and all questions after you've been on the table and tried it.
I know when somebody has been or not based on their questions or BS responses.
You're a player who tries stuff, I have no concerns.
Hal taught this to me and another part was taught to me by someone else and it has to do with a fraction system along with pivot. Hal had about 20 systems and THIS had more to do with what you refer to as the 3 angle system, not CTE. It's a combination of "stick aiming, centerball, edge, and 1/2 way between center and edge.
DIRECTIONS: Place an OB dead center in the side pocket with the front of the ball accurately measured at 8" from the pocket edge. It should be marked off to the side with a piece of tape or notebook reinforcement because you'll be moving the CB to multiple spots.
Place the back of the CB centered 10" away from the 1st diamond at the other side pocket for a right cut shot. As you align the CB with the OB, straight in should look like it will hit the tip of the pocket. Address the CB with 1/2 tip of INSIDE English from center and the tip of your cue aimed at the CENTER of the OB. Then PIVOT back to the center of the CB and take the shot. It should go in.
Set the OB back to the same preset spot. Move the CB one more diamond away from the side pocket toward the corner pocket to increase the angle with the same 10" away. Address the CB the same way as above with inside offset aiming to center OB and then pivot back to center and take the shot. Should also go in even though it was the same aim point to center of OB and pivot to center.
Set the OB back and now move the CB 10" from the FIRST diamond on the END rail from the corner pocket of the rail you've been shooting from. Now a straight in shot would be aimed slightly more than one diamond beyond the side pocket for the OB.
Do everything the same as before. 1/2 tip inside center CB to center of OB and then pivot back to center of CB. You may make it or your may not. If you miss more than you make use ONE TIP of inside instead of 1/2 tip when pivoting back to center.
So the question is, WHY do these different angled shots all go in with the same starting offset, pivoting back to center, aiming at the CENTER of the OB?
The same results can be duplicated by aiming your tip at the CENTER of the OB while addressing the CENTER of the CB but pivoting 1/2 tip to OUTSIDE English.
As you increase the angle further, your new aim point will be 1/2 way between center and edge with the same tip offsets and either pivoting back to center CB from inside or outside from center.
Let's see who the doers are on the table and the keyboard bullsh*t artists are by battling with words and never getting on the table.
THE ABOVE IS NOT CTE!
It should also not be tied in with any other method or visual for aiming. Forget ghostball...forget contact points...forget overlaps...forget lights and shadows...forget in-between fractions or alignments. Just use one of the 3 alignments with the tip of your cue from an inside offset position and then pivot back to center.
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The usual tap dance.
I won't choose a description of "acquire the visual" because you'll simply claim that it's not the "real" description. If you choose it you can't take that bailout - that's why you won't do it.
pj
chgo
CTE is a uniquely different way of looking at CB OB relationships on a table. One thing for certain is that if you and I were at a training session for a group of unbiased students with no dog in the hunt......I am betting they'd see a NEW DIMENSION.......and describe it as such.....WHY????
Because within minutes or a few hours the students, I think all of them would experience perception in a way they never thought possible....not even counting the connection to right angles.
Stan Shuffett
Okay,
Now I think I got it. You're on a totally different subject & not CTE which is where this whole thing was.
I can't get to a table now but perhaps tomorrow.
The thing is, I can already see how the 3 shots can be made as you've outlined.
That said, I don't see your big picture, unless you're going down the road of Hal's single aim point method that was mentioned.
If so, I'm totally interested.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
Correct and glad to hear it. Actually it's not just those 3 shots that can be made. It's every angle on the table where a ball can be pocketed from a couple of degrees to about 87 degrees. (Oh man, now I've gone and done it. I made one of those wild impossible claims that can't possibly be true or verified. Keyboard trolls are getting ramped up for the slaughter.) LOL
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Sorry Pat, you are wrong on that. It is exactly as I stated.
Dave,
I added to my original post with the Hal's one aim point method that was mentioned.
Does your "correct" apply to that?
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
Based on your definition, none of the aiming systems fall under the category of objective. You also say that even fractional aiming is dependent on feel.
If it means you have to learn it, yeah, everything physical requires practice and muscle memory (feel).
If that's what you mean by feel, then sighting a rifle, which is a physical activity, is also a feel based system.
How can you distinguish between the "feel" of learning a systems different fractional shot pictures, and just learning to perform the 3 alignment systems correctly?
I guess what I'm getting at, is can you prove that CTE doesn't work in a "new dimension" anymore than they can prove it does?
...double post...
I hope we can stop the CTE squabbling in this thread at least - it's the same old stuff and I'm sure everybody is as bored with it as I am. There's more to the question of feel in aiming than whether or not it applies to CTE.
I'm interested to hear more definitions of feel, and whether Fear of Feel is a thing, and why we should care, etc.
pj
chgo
I haven't seen it nor do I care to go back regardless of what you posted. The only part that matters is you do what you expected you could do which is get on the table tomorrow in order that we can have a fresh start from your actual EXPERIENCE with it.
Trust me, we'll have a lot to discuss but at least be on a somewhat similar wavelength.
FINE! Then leave references, whether directly or indirectly, to my work out of your comments.
Stan Shuffett
Dave,
There are already methods that can do that.
This one might be better but I'd suggest that you not say it is a totally objective method.:wink:
I already understand how the 3 shots can be made as you've outlined.
Is there something elses I should do too when I can get to a table?
Best,
Rick
Pat, I don't think anyone is afraid of feel.But, wouldn't you rather replace it with something better if you could? Feel plays a huge role in playing great or even good pool. There is the feel for the speed of the shot, feel for position play, ect.
But, in aiming, just as in position play and all other aspects that rely on feel, there will be times that it just doesn't work like we want it to.
Look at a robot, programmed correctly, it will perform the same every time. That is our ultimate goal as humans. Not to be robots at the table, but to perform correctly every time. We all know that just isn't going to happen. However, do you agree that it would greatly benefit a person to eliminate feel whenever possible?
The more we can eliminate feel, the more consistent we can be. As long as that feel is replaced with something that is correctly programmed into us to perform the task at hand. For aiming, we have several systems that can greatly reduce or eliminate that problem. For the stroke, we have methods to be as consistent as possible. For position play, we have methods to greatly reduce the amount of feel and give pretty precise angles that will result. For speed, we have just feel yet at this time.
Everything we do to reduce feel by replacing it with a known structure is a good thing. Those that only want to use feel are limiting themselves to having ups and downs in their game.
You know that CTE uses 2 line visuals on all but really thin cuts, yes?
And you do know what the word "acquire" means, right?
So if you don't feel like looking it up yourself, then you could probably just use a little common sense.
Rick, please do NOT start any CRAP. When and where did I state that it was a totally objective method with incomparable ACCURACY without fail? It is objective but there are some things to know and learn with experience . It's not FEEL. It's KNOWING from EXPERIENCE and using it on the table. Once you know there is no guessing or groping. You just know.
If you know how those 3 shots can be made as I laid out, please tell me. Do you know how every makeable shot on the table can be made?
Yes, there is something you should do when you get to the table. DO IT AS I HAVE LAID OUT!!
You and I are going on a very bad path once again and I'm not the person going there.
Do it on the table or continue keyboard doing it. Your choice. The latter will have an immediate end to us EVER communicating again and you can use whatever you wish for the rest of your pool playing life.
Maybe you should and just be happy. I'm only offering an alternative and something new. Like Stan, I could care less what somebody does or uses.
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t
Miscommunication. Misinterpretation.
We did seem to be heading down a bit of a better path until this post of YOURS. (I can use caps too)
To keep it SIMPLE, I did not say that you said anything about this method being totally objective.
I merely suggested that perhaps you should not... & I put a wink at the end of the statement. It was meant as a small joke.
Have a Good Evening & Life, Dave.
Best 2 you & All,
Rick
PS You quoted me & enticed me into the conversation. It was NOT the other way around. Perhap, the word baited instead of the word enticed would be more appropriate.
Miscommunication. Misinterpretation.
We did seem to be heading down a bit of a better path until this post of YOURS. (I can use caps too)
To keep it SIMPLE, I did not say that you said anything about this method being totally objective.
I merely suggested that perhaps you should not... & I put a wink at the end of the statement. It was meant as a small joke.
Have a Good Evening & Life, Dave.
Best 2 you & All,
Rick
PS You quoted me & enticed me into the conversation. It was NOT the other way around. Perhap, the word baited instead of the word enticed would be more appropriate.
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