Fear of Feel

[swest]

Neil's post was explaining how the perception can be different for each of the 5 shots.

My post explained the purpose of initially lining up center to center and how to find your visuals for a single shot.

Two entirely different posts that you think are somehow related. Further proving your lack of knowledge on the subject and/or reading comprehension.

Well, with respect to the 'reading comprehension', you can go **** yourself.

And, with respect to the two different posts, they both purported to help one get on a line of aim. At least, that was the way they were presented. If that wasn't the case, then they were represented incorrectly.

- s.west

 

[ENGLISH!]

But you're not moving the CB. It remains the same distance from the OB (in the 5-shot example), the CTE line remains at the same angle to the center-to-center line and so do each and every one of the CB edge-to-aimpoint lines. They're all the exact same CB/OB relationships.

So how is a new cut angle for the shot visualized from the exact same starting reference lines? No CB or body movement, no "shifting" or "rotating" changes them - they're fixed relationships of the CB and OB themselves.

I say this without any animosity, but as a "friendly adversary": you guys clearly have difficulty with spatial visualization and don't understand this "rotating edges" rationalization yourselves.

By the way, do you remember that the first use of "rotating edges" was to explain filling the gaps in Hal Houle's "3-angles" system (a non-pivot fractions system)? It was floated as the more-plausible-sounding rationalization after "pocket slop margin of error" (the original rationalization) was shown to be clearly implausible.

pj <- here comes "3D vs. 2D" again
chgo

:thumbup2: Patrick,

You can say things in so many fewer words than I seem able. Probably because I 'fear' being misunderstood &/or don't want to leave 'holes' of any ambiguity from which to be 'attacked'.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[swest]

I gave a personal example from my younger years, and you put that on yourself.

Sounds like something someone with a guilty conscience would do.

With respect to the 'guilty conscience', you can take the passive/aggressive pose if you like, but it just makes you look weak.

- Sam West

 

[Neil]

Mr Shuffet he's speaking the truth and probably helping others at the same time.
All along I've told you people you have gaps in your system, you guys call it rotating,shifting...whats the difference, your still moving to a new location to create the right aimline for the pocket. You get red a$$ every time someone questions you when you've actually caused most of the confusion yourself. I imagine a lot of people here owe some apologies and you for one owe some. Sorry!

Anthony

Except he's not speaking the truth, and neither are you by defending his false accusations. How would you know if he's speaking the truth or not when neither one of you even understand the system enough to know? Simply, you can't.

 

[swest]

Ron does not need your words to tell him what he is doing....you are simply using him to continue your platform against CTE.
I FOR ONE WILL BE GLAD WHEN THE MODERATORS RECOGNIZE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS THREAD......and in this forum as well. My guess is that your life in aiming threads is on borrowed time.

Stan Shuffett

What is happening in this thread?

 

[Neil]

But you're not moving the CB. It remains the same distance from the OB (in the 5-shot example), the CTE line remains at the same angle to the center-to-center line and so do each and every one of the CB edge-to-aimpoint lines. They're all the exact same CB/OB relationships.

So how is a new cut angle for the shot visualized from the exact same starting reference lines? No CB or body movement, no "shifting" or "rotating" changes them - they're fixed relationships of the CB and OB themselves.

I say this without any animosity, but as a "friendly adversary": you guys clearly have difficulty with spatial visualization and don't understand this "rotating edges" rationalization yourselves.

By the way, do you remember that the first use of "rotating edges" was to explain filling the gaps in Hal Houle's "3-angles" system (a non-pivot fractions system)? It was floated as the more-plausible-sounding rationalization after "pocket slop margin of error" (the original rationalization) was shown to be clearly implausible.

pj <- here comes "3D vs. 2D" again
chgo

Pat, for once, try getting off your paper, and try a table. When you shift your body, and change what line you are looking down , you change the edges locations. YOU are the one with spatial difficulty.

Simply amazing how so many of you want to try and put holes in a system that you really have no clue about. And, the only reason you really don't have a clue, is because all you guys want to do is nitpick words out of context and not take it to a table and actually learn something.

 

[swest]

I just realized, BieberLvr, that, with your last couple of posts, you were only trying to get "the last word", which I promised you could have. As I said before, I had already yielded, and I'm afraid I reacted inappropriately.

So, this time I promise, really really. You can have the last word, and I won't respond at all...

So, give it everything you've got.

- s.west

 

[Neil]

Hi Ron,

That is exactly what one of the best players in my area has done with it.

When I asked him about CTE & whether or not it was objective for all the shots, he almost yelled, 'Oh no, it has holes'. He confirm my own findings.

He then went on to say that all systems have holes & that is why you need to use 2 or maybe 3 different methods.

He basically uses CTE as a check for certain shots that he's not sure about with his main method. He said that sometimes CTE will show him that his main method is correct because it does not match up to CTE & other times it will show him that it is correct because it does match up with CTE. He said that he can do it that way because he is familiar with where the holes are.

Everyone is different & will use tools differently. I too use many methods depending on the shot at hand.

Some are okay using multiple methods & some only want to use one method.

It's to each their own as it should be.

If you don't mind me asking, what enticed you to look into CTE?

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

And yet, you have never been able to verify what those holes might be.

 

[8pack]

Except he's not speaking the truth, and neither are you by defending his false accusations. How would you know if he's speaking the truth or not when neither one of you even understand the system enough to know? Simply, you can't.

You guys have your own words,video's to thank for your troubles.:wink:
And yes I understand what was presented, what I can't understand is how you get a center pocket system out of that, cause I didnt, unless I adjusted a little and got lucky.

Anthony

 

[ENGLISH!]

The statement stands as was.......honestly! I am growing weary of the nonsense that occurs here.....and no longer wish to deal with haters like you that have zero intentions of learning CTE....I am not needed here any longer and I am better off joining those that have been run off of AZ.....I have projects that are better suited for my time than dealing with someone like you.

Stan Shuffett

Sir,

I sincerely wish you success in all of your projects & endeavors & that includes CTE.

You are simply incorrect of your assessment here of AZB members & of me.

I, & others, are not haters & do not hate your CTE.
As I've said, I & others have complimented CTE in certain regards.

Each individual certainly can & should pursue whatever they wish but they should have all of the necessary information to make a well informed decision.

This thread was not a discussion of CTE nor it's nature until You turned it into one. Perhaps it would have been better if You would have given your thoughts & opinions regarding the topic of the thread, 'Feel' & a possible fear of it.

Perhaps, as I've said before, there should possibly be a thread, section, subforum, or what ever for ONLY help in learning CTE through You &/or other advocates. I'd certainly vote for that if it was ever dependant on a vote which it never would be. But perhaps AZB should reward You with such.

I think it would be a good thing for AZB if You had your own section or whatever here from which to teach CTE.

However I don't think it is a good thing or advisable to dictate censorship of disagreement elsewhere on AZB.

I & others can certainly see what you want & are soliciting relating to me. You want me gone. Some others would want the same thing.

If the post you made & pulled that sort of suggested that CTE may not in your opinion actually be totally objective is true, then much if not all of the discention can simply be put away.

Whatever the case. I am not a hater of CTE nor You & I am not your enemy.

We are just not in agreement on the subject of the nature of your CTE in it's entirety. Is it 'objective' based? I've said as much with a slight qualifier. Does it require subjectivity for between the objective shots? I have concluded that Yes it does & I am not the only one that has done so.

If you disagree then you should be able to logically & rationally explain why I am mistaken as you see it.

I would certainly welcome that IF that is possible. Please remember that I was intrigued when I heard of an aiming method that was totally objective.

There is a difference between teaching your CTE & discussing the affirmations as to its nature for certain shots.

I would certainly vote for a section on AZB for you to teach your CTE without discussion as to disagreements regarding the nature of it for certain shots.

Perhaps THAT is for what you should be lobbying.

I would also like to see you post more on other topics nonspecific to CTE as you are of value to the pool community other than just CTE.

But I would not vote for censorship of disagreement to the topic in general & elsewhere. Not that it would ever or should ever come to a vote here. I'm just stating my opinion.

Some have suggested to me in PM that perhaps the whole topic of CTE should be banned. I certainly disagree with that as I've indicated above.

I would hope that you can see & understand my points.

Best Wishes to You, Sir,
Rick

 

[Patrick Johnson]

When you shift your body, and change what line you are looking down , you change the edges locations.

You don't change the one and only OB edge the CB center can align with.

I'll it put another way to help you visualize it: if you anchor a line at the CB's "center of mass", starting with it pointing past the outside edge of the CB, and then pivot the line at the CB's center until it just touches the outside edge of the OB, it can only touch the OB at that same point no matter where you stand or "rotate". That's the only CTE "edge" that exists for that CB position (for that direction of cut). If you think you're seeing more CTE edges, you're fooling yourself.

pj
chgo

 

[ronscuba]

Hi Ron,

That is exactly what one of the best players in my area has done with it.

When I asked him about CTE & whether or not it was objective for all the shots, he almost yelled, 'Oh no, it has holes'. He confirm my own findings.

He then went on to say that all systems have holes & that is why you need to use 2 or maybe 3 different methods.

He basically uses CTE as a check for certain shots that he's not sure about with his main method. He said that sometimes CTE will show him that his main method is correct because it does not match up to CTE & other times it will show him that it is correct because it does match up with CTE. He said that he can do it that way because he is familiar with where the holes are.

Everyone is different & will use tools differently. I too use many methods depending on the shot at hand.

Some are okay using multiple methods & some only want to use one method.

It's to each their own as it should be.

If you don't mind me asking, what enticed you to look into CTE?

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

I'm relatively new, intermediate level, but improving. I don't have a problem aiming. Pocketing balls is my strength.

I like research and gathering information. I read about backhand english and it's pivot. I tried it and was surprised how well it worked for me.

The enthusiasm people have for CTE was interesting, but after my success with BHE, the pivot aspect of CTE was the main thing that made me want to try it.

 

[Straightpool_99]

.....................

 

[swest]

I'm relatively new, intermediate level, but improving. I don't have a problem aiming. Pocketing balls is my strength.

I like research and gathering information. I read about backhand english and it's pivot. I tried it and was surprised how well it worked for me.

The enthusiasm people have for CTE was interesting, but after my success with BHE, the pivot aspect of CTE was the main thing that made me want to try it.

I have seen others relate the pivot of CTE to the pivot of BHE, and I don't understand why.

As far as I know, the pivot of BHE is strictly related to the natural 'pivot point' of the cue you are using by which you can, effectively, negate the effect of squirt when applying left or right spin to a particular shot.

Whereas the pivot of CTE is what 'connects the System to the geometry of a 2x1 table'...

- s.west

 

[ENGLISH!]

You don't change the one and only OB edge the CB center can align with.

I'll it put another way to help you visualize it: if you anchor a line at the CB's "center of mass", starting with it pointing past the outside edge of the CB, and then pivot the line at the CB's center until it just touches the outside edge of the OB, it can only touch the OB at that same point no matter where you stand or "rotate". That's the only CTE "edge" that exists for that CB position (for that direction of cut). If you think you're seeing more CTE edges, you're fooling yourself.

pj
chgo

:thumbup2: :thumbup2: :thumbup2:

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'm relatively new, intermediate level, but improving. I don't have a problem aiming. Pocketing balls is my strength.

I like research and gathering information. I read about backhand english and it's pivot. I tried it and was surprised how well it worked for me.

The enthusiasm people have for CTE was interesting, but after my success with BHE, the pivot aspect of CTE was the main thing that made me want to try it.

Ahhhh,

But one is with the bridge V on the shot line & pivoted away.

The other is dependent on the placement of the Bridge V to arrive at the shot line after the pivot.

Anyway, as you said you now have an expanded toolbox.

Best 2 Ya & Shoot Well,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

Let me try to explain my position more clearly and lets forget about the 5 shots for now. Imagine that you have a single shot, that calls for a CTE/ETA visual with a left sweep to be pocketed.
1. I can only see the CTE/ETA from one head position which is the fixed cueball that Stan mentions in his videos. This is the most important point, from which my argument flows.
2. No matter where I approach the shot from my head will always end up in this position, so long as the CTE/ETA lines line up correctly.
3. Now lets imagine that I shift both the balls two balls widths to the left, but that the shot still calls for the same visuals and sweep.
4. My position then is as follows: As far as the cueball/object ball/head relationship is concerned, nothing has changed! Relative to the cueball and object ball my head position at "fixed cueball" will be exactly the same as previously!. Yet, to hit center pocket, the cue ball must contact the object ball at a different location.

I don't care about being "right" about this issue, but I hope this clarifies my position on the matter. If I'm wrong about this, then I'm happy to change my mind, as I'm not one to get married to any position. Nor am I interested in insulting people, at least on purpose.

:thumbup2: :thumbup2: :thumbup2:

& I'm also with you on your last paragraph as well.

As to the insultive thing, it's all about the intent. Some take insult at the truth. I won't lie to save one from their own misguided perception.

It's like that commercial when Lincoln's wife asks him if that dress makes her behind look big.:wink:

Some, on the other hand, try to disguise their intended insults under the guise of telling what they call the truth.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[BeiberLvr]

I just realized, BieberLvr, that, with your last couple of posts, you were only trying to get "the last word", which I promised you could have. As I said before, I had already yielded, and I'm afraid I reacted inappropriately.

So, this time I promise, really really. You can have the last word, and I won't respond at all...

So, give it everything you've got.

- s.west

Last word....

 

[ronscuba]

I have seen others relate the pivot of CTE to the pivot of BHE, and I don't understand why.

As far as I know, the pivot of BHE is strictly related to the natural 'pivot point' of the cue you are using by which you can, effectively, negate the effect of squirt when applying left or right spin to a particular shot.

Whereas the pivot of CTE is what 'connects the System to the geometry of a 2x1 table'...

- s.west

1st read about BHE on Dr. Dave's site and video. The pivot sounded odd and difficult to believe it would work. I tried it and was pleasantly surprised.

That is what made me want to try CTE. I know the pivots are not the same and are done for different reasons. But, after my success with the pivot in BHE, I figured CTE and it's pivot was worthwhile to try.

 

[cfrandy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4jEPmHFa8

Haven't seen that video in some time. Effing love it! If more people spent their time learning PIITH, we would probably get along much better on these aiming threads. Unfortunately, many people are unable to learn PIITH, so that seek the magic bullet of aiming. PIITH IS the magic bullet. It works every time you PIITH. Learn this system and learn it well, and YOU too will be able to PIITH!
FYI, there is only one method of aiming that works as well as PIITH. It is the PTB method! Every time you pocket the ball, your system has done it's job!