Finding your natural point of aim...

chefjeff

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
On another thread, I suggested practicing shooting with your eyes closed in order to shoot better with your eyes opened. I didn't get any reply to that.

I just saw this 2 minute gun aiming video where the trainer demonstrates a similar thing when learning to find one's natural aim when using a handgun.

Can this technique be used for pool effectively, I wonder?

Jeff Livingston
 
It's good thing to practice but I wouldn't reccomend closing your eyes for the cheese. However, I don't think it's about aiming as such, but feeling your stroke.
 
Mitchxout said:
It's good thing to practice but I wouldn't reccomend closing your eyes for the cheese. However, I don't think it's about aiming as such, but feeling your stroke.
Click to expand...

You might be right about that.

When I get a minute or two, I'm gonna try doing this before/during my set-up routine. Sometimes my feet don't listen to my head and get out of whack. Maybe this can help me "feel" the stance better?

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
On another thread, I suggested practicing shooting with your eyes closed in order to shoot better with your eyes opened. I didn't get any reply to that.

I just saw this 2 minute gun aiming video where the trainer demonstrates a similar thing when learning to find one's natural aim when using a handgun.

Can this technique be used for pool effectively, I wonder?

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

Jeff, it can be a good thing in PRACTICE to do. Get all set, then close your eyes or turn your head away and shoot. It will tell you if your stroke and alignment are true, or if you have been "steering" the cue to hit where you want to. (assuming of course that your aim was correct)

As to the video, I think the approach would be to stand behind the cb, close your eyes, then bend over into your stance, open your eyes, and see if you are where you should be. If not, adjust your feet until you can bend over properly.

The easy way to do that, is just do it in reverse. Get down to where you are confident on the shot. Then stand up and look at where your feet are. That is where they need to be before you bend down.

Now, if you aim and align with a pivot system, of course this will not work for you.
 
Neil said:
Jeff, it can be a good thing in PRACTICE to do. Get all set, then close your eyes or turn your head away and shoot. It will tell you if your stroke and alignment are true, or if you have been "steering" the cue to hit where you want to. (assuming of course that your aim was correct)

As to the video, I think the approach would be to stand behind the cb, close your eyes, then bend over into your stance, open your eyes, and see if you are where you should be. If not, adjust your feet until you can bend over properly.

The easy way to do that, is just do it in reverse. Get down to where you are confident on the shot. Then stand up and look at where your feet are. That is where they need to be before you bend down.

Now, if you aim and align with a pivot system, of course this will not work for you.
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Thanks for chiming in, Neil.

I have a table at home. I've created a way to see if my feet are where they're supposed to be. I set up the CB on the center spot, the OB halfway to the side pocket, straight in. I then set up my stance and look down on the floor at my heels. Directly behind each heel SHOULD be the 2" piece of blue painters tape, perpendicular to each foot, letting me know if I'm in my correct position or not.

I'll try that with my eyes closed a few times and see (get it?) how that works.

Jeff Livingston
 
I've spent a lot of time doing an exercise very similar to the one in the firearm video and I believe it does have value in virtually the same way he is showing.

I use an 'aiming board'. It's just a piece of plywood with a single straight line drawn on it. It has been very valuable in enabling me to ingrain my setup position (much like the video).

With the board resting on a dining room table (very close to the same height as a pool table) you get down into position looking down the aimline. Then you take your normal alignment strokes but with your eyes closed, and then follow thru as you normally would and freeze. When you open your eyes check to see if your cue tip remains on the center of the line.

I have a method of adjusting the stance in a similar way the video recommended. It's a great method to ingrain your natural setup as everyone has a different body structure and there is no exact one size fits all.
 
I forget who taught this way of finding your natural foot position:

Stand with your arms hanging comfortably straight down at your sides and your cue held loosely at its balance point in your grip hand. Let your arm hang comfortably and your wrist turn to its natural angle. Supposedly this "natural" angle of your cue to your feet is the angle you should use for getting into your stance on every shot.

I'm not sure about the above, but I like (and teach) the idea of getting into a comfortable stance at the table without any balls or shot line to "steer" you. Simply find the most comfortable, natural stance for yourself that allows your stick to swing naturally in a straight line along your line of sight. Then look down and see exactly where your feet are in relation to your stick - that's where you want them to be in relation to your shot line whenever you get into your stance.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I forget who taught this way of finding your natural foot position:

Stand with your arms hanging comfortably straight down at your sides and your cue held loosely at its balance point in your grip hand. Let your arm hang comfortably and your wrist turn to its natural angle. Supposedly this "natural" angle of your cue to your feet is the angle you should use for getting into your stance on every shot. ...
Click to expand...

Sounds like what Thorsten Hohmann shows near the start of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPn3Wzp4NT8
 
I've found that practicing your stroke and alignment away from the distractions of the pool hall or even a pool table is the best way to find your natural position. At first I was bummed that I didn't have a pool table to practice on. Only after many hours of practicing on a dining room table did I begin to appreciate how effective it is to be able to focus without distractions.

There are three primary ways you can control that affect your alignment.

1. The placement of your 'rear foot' to the aimline (right foot for right handers)
2. The angle of your rear foot
3. The placement of your front foot in relation to your rear foot

The angle of your front foot can affect your alignment but I don't recommend using it - focus on finding the correct position of the first three and you will be good enough.

The absolute best way to learn this is by having a line to align to. If you have a table that joins together you can use the intersection as your line. If you only have a pool table you can use the line on the rail.

You can really see this when your standing with your cue at your side on the line (somewhat like Thorsten in the video but it's more complicated than he shows in that short segment).
 
And here's the alignment method more fully explained:


1. Placing your rear foot sets you parallel to the aimline. Move your foot to the right and your cue will move right (move it left and you will move left). Most people step on the line somewhere near the ball of their foot.

2. Once you're on the aimline, you will be surprised how far the angle of your cue changes when you turn/pivot your rear foot left and right. This rear foot angle is the reason snooker players can line up more square to the shot and many pool players line up near a 45 degree angle to the shot. Stand with relaxed grip on the cue at your side and just pivot your back foot. Your cue will swing around like a tank turret.

3. The placement of your front foot should be about shoulder width apart and varies between almost square to the shot (like a snooker player) and 45 degrees like a typical pool player.

Once you have all three of these, use the method I explained in my first post to find your natural position. Adjust all three until you settle on your natural position.

Having a straight line in front of you to help see how your cue changes position based on your stance is really the only way to play with these three variables to find your natural stance. Doing this on a pool table without a line is a waste of time.
 
chefjeff said:
On another thread, I suggested practicing shooting with your eyes closed in order to shoot better with your eyes opened. I didn't get any reply to that.

I just saw this 2 minute gun aiming video where the trainer demonstrates a similar thing when learning to find one's natural aim when using a handgun.

Can this technique be used for pool effectively, I wonder?

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

I tried this and missed. Now I have a big hole in my table.
 
Here is a photo of the aiming board I use. You can see the straight line intersection of the table to the left of the board. You don't have to make a board like this if you have a table with a line... However, you can't see it in this photo but the board has several items you cannot put on your dining room table.

There is an aimpoint at the far end of the aiming board and a series of placement holes so that balls can be placed from 15 degree to 45 degree shots on the aimline. Not needed to verify and ingrain your alignment - a simple line will suffice.
 

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chefjeff said:
On another thread, I suggested practicing shooting with your eyes closed in order to shoot better with your eyes opened. I didn't get any reply to that.
Click to expand...

I frequently do this during practice, and sometimes even during games. For me the benefit lies in separating the action from the outcome.

I can become so preoccupied with the outcome of the shot - both making the shot, and getting position - that my conscious mind takes over and starts screwing up things during the stroke. So, I get all set up on the shot (and take care of the things my consciousness needs to attend to), then, when I am ready to make the stroke, I close my eyes and execute. For me, this has the desired effect: separation of the action from its outcome; and allows me to execute without the interference of my meddlesome consciousness.

I find that if I do this a couple of times, I can, sometimes, get myself back on track.
 
plfrg said:
A(snip)
Having a straight line in front of you to help see how your cue changes position based on your stance is really the only way to play with these three variables to find your natural stance. Doing this on a pool table without a line is a waste of time.
Click to expand...

I forgot to say that I have a straight line on my table, too. I used, again, blue painters tape from the middle of one side pocket to the middle of the other. It stays on the table all the time, as I use my table more for practice than for show or competition. This line matches up precisely with the shot I described to check my set-up/stance.

Jeff Livingston
 
mista335 said:
I tried this and missed. Now I have a big hole in my table.
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lol...reminds me of a bar table I saw that was having its cloth replaced. There was a .22 hole in the kitchen that had been puttied over. That's what the owner told me anyway....I'd think it would shatter the slate, but there it was.


Jeff Livingston
 
swest said:
I frequently do this during practice, and sometimes even during games. For me the benefit lies in separating the action from the outcome.

I can become so preoccupied with the outcome of the shot - both making the shot, and getting position - that my conscious mind takes over and starts screwing up things during the stroke. So, I get all set up on the shot (and take care of the things my consciousness needs to attend to), then, when I am ready to make the stroke, I close my eyes and execute. For me, this has the desired effect: separation of the action from its outcome; and allows me to execute without the interference of my meddlesome consciousness.

I find that if I do this a couple of times, I can, sometimes, get myself back on track.
Click to expand...

Alright...now I have a reason, not just a hunch, as to why this is a good thing.

Thanks!


Jeff Livingston
 
I've experienced aiming as "feeling the angle with my eyes"

Mitchxout said:
It's good thing to practice but I wouldn't reccomend closing your eyes for the cheese. However, I don't think it's about aiming as such, but feeling your stroke.
Click to expand...

It's a Game of "Touch", so anything you can do to get a better "feel for the stroke" the better off you will be. I've experienced aiming as "feeling the angle with my eyes". 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
chefjeff said:
On another thread, I suggested practicing shooting with your eyes closed in order to shoot better with your eyes opened. I didn't get any reply to that.

I just saw this 2 minute gun aiming video where the trainer demonstrates a similar thing when learning to find one's natural aim when using a handgun.

Can this technique be used for pool effectively, I wonder?

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

No, because the standing shooting position used in the clip is for (I'm guessing speed shooting at steel plates) is nothing like the various shooting position one will use throughout the course of a match or lifetime of playing pool.

In the test thread, there are some shot setups you need to use in order to fully test the usefulness of any system or training aid you use.

Speed shooting at steel plates is for hitting somewhere in a area of a steel plate. Target shooting is about hitting the center of a bulls-eye and not just on the paper. Even though this is shooting, both use different technique and the goals are different.

I'm in a bewilderment about why there is this notion that shooting guns and pocketing balls in pool are alike. Maybe it is the use of common terms and phrases that has lead to this notion. Terms such as shot, pull the trigger, and aiming.

I have experience in another type of shooting. One that involves moving targets in various conditions and distances using both a rifle and handgun. This is nothing like shooting steels or target where the target doesn't move and the distance doesn't vary greatly.

In this type of shooting, you have to be ahead of the shot so to speak. You have to take the variables, target speed, distance, elevation into account to put the muzzle the needed amount ahead of the target. You have to see and feel the shot before you do the shot.

This same concept is in riding and racing motorcycles and going fast in cars. The faster you go the farther ahead you have to think about where you want to be on the track. How you enter one turn greatly affects the exit of that turn or a series of turns. If you have to block someone, you have to think ahead about where to do so before you do it. In racing, in your mind, your are always ahead of whats happening at the current time while still trying to be aware of whats happening around you.

When you get into shooting position and do a shot with your eyes closed, this is forcing you to think ahead about the shot. Now, you must see and feel the shot in your mind. No longer do have your eyes to let you see the shot, but you now have to visualize that shot in your mind without their influence.

You must see the shot in your mind first, then do it. Same concept applies with the eyes open. You must be ahead of the shot(see it in your mind), then do the shot.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I forget who taught this way of finding your natural foot position:

Stand with your arms hanging comfortably straight down at your sides and your cue held loosely at its balance point in your grip hand. Let your arm hang comfortably and your wrist turn to its natural angle. Supposedly this "natural" angle of your cue to your feet is the angle you should use for getting into your stance on every shot.

I'm not sure about the above, but I like (and teach) the idea of getting into a comfortable stance at the table without any balls or shot line to "steer" you. Simply find the most comfortable, natural stance for yourself that allows your stick to swing naturally in a straight line along your line of sight. Then look down and see exactly where your feet are in relation to your stick - that's where you want them to be in relation to your shot line whenever you get into your stance.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I think it was Bert Kinnister, but I might be wrong.
 
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