First time seeing my own stroke

[pooltchr]

You have a religious conviction that people need helped and that your a savior of some sort.

you surely can't answer simple questions and don't half a deep understanding of what you say

I didn't want to embarass you in front of everyone by having your student stand back and watch you get spanked in public and degrade your act, so consider yourself fortunate.

It takes no balls to deal with a duck like you. .
My game and knowledge have gone well beyond anything your going to come close to

and I didn't want to make you feel anymore inferior than you looked/acted.

I was just curious to see the great one in real life.

All the knowledge you have, you've gleened from others, so you really aren't aware of anything original and what you have gleened is base.
I could shoot holes in your replies all day long but, again, you don't know what you try to teach soo ..

.

It seems, judging by this post, that your only purpose is to try and put down Scott, and stroke your own ego.

I suspect that you probably think you have the likes of Archer and Busta shaking in their boots at the thought of having to play you.

By the way...do you not think "all the knowledge" you have was gleened from someone else, or did you discover the entire game all by yourself?

I've seen your kind way too many times.

Steve

 

[scottjen26]

Now that this thread is completely derailed...

I get some people's negative reaction to the BCA certified way of teaching. It certainly can occasionally come across as a my way or the highway type of approach. However, I can tell you from my one and only lesson back in the day with Jerry Briesath, who I believe taught or mentored many of the current group of teachers, that it is not that rigid. Jerry discussed all of the advantages of the pendulum stroke and his preferred way of teaching, but only tweaked my existing routine, something I was able to integrate very quickly and I definitely improved and was shooting 10% - 15% better after just a week or two of practice. If anything I think the occasional brief, "do it this way" answer is a matter of simplicity and is typically accurate in the absence of anyone's existing routine or nuances that work for them.

As for learning everything from other sources, or competing instead of teaching - both irrelevant points. All of us learn most of what we know from other sources, or "discover" something only to realize someone else already did. If we are lucky we are able to add some of our own findings and experiences or at least be able to teach the information in different ways to others. And most of the golf coaches out there would not be able to compete on the PGA tour, but that doesn't diminish their capacity to teach or the knowledge they possess.


Now that I'm back into shooting pool and monitoring the forum again, I have a dream. I would like to actually click on a thread after a few days or a week of not reading posts and not have to wade through 3, 5, or 10 (or in the case of CTE-related threads 50+!) pages of useless information and name calling and arguing and multi-quotes just to find a few answers to the original posters question or a few posts relevant to the topic at hand. Just a dream though...
Scott

 

[randyg]

Now that this thread is completely derailed...

I get some people's negative reaction to the BCA certified way of teaching. It certainly can occasionally come across as a my way or the highway type of approach. However, I can tell you from my one and only lesson back in the day with Jerry Briesath, who I believe taught or mentored many of the current group of teachers, that it is not that rigid. Jerry discussed all of the advantages of the pendulum stroke and his preferred way of teaching, but only tweaked my existing routine, something I was able to integrate very quickly and I definitely improved and was shooting 10% - 15% better after just a week or two of practice. If anything I think the occasional brief, "do it this way" answer is a matter of simplicity and is typically accurate in the absence of anyone's existing routine or nuances that work for them.

As for learning everything from other sources, or competing instead of teaching - both irrelevant points. All of us learn most of what we know from other sources, or "discover" something only to realize someone else already did. If we are lucky we are able to add some of our own findings and experiences or at least be able to teach the information in different ways to others. And most of the golf coaches out there would not be able to compete on the PGA tour, but that doesn't diminish their capacity to teach or the knowledge they possess.


Now that I'm back into shooting pool and monitoring the forum again, I have a dream. I would like to actually click on a thread after a few days or a week of not reading posts and not have to wade through 3, 5, or 10 (or in the case of CTE-related threads 50+!) pages of useless information and name calling and arguing and multi-quotes just to find a few answers to the original posters question or a few posts relevant to the topic at hand. Just a dream though...
Scott

Yes, he is the King. Jerry is the best.
randyg

 

[3kushn]

I briefly met Jerry at the SBE in the 3C room. I'd only seen him on his DVD. He mentioned Madison and so I asked him his name. I told him I took a looooooooog lesson from one of his students. He was very interested to know what I thought and if I learned anything.

I took off my smart ass hat and told him the truth. ABSOLUTELY!! The lesson was a real eyeopener.

Good follow up on his part. Showed he cares about what he teaches.

Someday I'll get to Madison.

 

[Scott Lee]

Tom...Make that Phoenix. Jerry spends almost all his time in Phoenix nowadays!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Someday I'll get to Madison.

 

[Dead Crab]

I don't care about the arguments, but this is simply a cruel thing to say. I get the point, but it's a bad simile to refer this situation to people who were born with hardship and try their best to accomplish something.

I agree. As the parent of a disabled child, I can say with some certainty that attitudes like this are more harmful to our children than their impairments.

Canwin, you may rest assured that I will fight against your stilted attitude to my last breath. What kind of person makes disparaging remarks against disabled children, anyway?

 

[Siz]

Brknrun -

I like your observations on the grip. Very good.

But I am not quite so sure about the variable follow through.

When putting, you can step away from the line and rehearse the whole stroke including the follow through. But in billiards, the rehearsal strokes are stopped short at the cue ball. So you cannot rehearse a short follow when about to play a soft shot and a longer one when you are about to play a harder shot etc. For this reason IMO it is much more important to have a consistent follow through for every shot when playing pool than it is when putting.

But perhaps you don't have any problems with your method?

I will just throw this out there...just cause.

This is probably not "BCA" type teachings, but it is derived from teachings in the game of Golf.

The stroke (and part in question follow through)

The arm pit finish is an example of teaching (IMO) consistency of stroke. However...I personally have adapted the putting stroke to a pool stroke. This may fall on deaf ears...and that is OK.

In putting you can't have a "fixed" finish position....since puts are all different speeds and lenghts....it would be near impossible to have any feel if you always followed through to the same point past the ball.

What is typically taught is the the distance you draw the putter back will be the distance that your putter follows through past the golf ball.

I try to apply this same method to my pool stroke....my medium speed shot will not make it all the way up to my arm pit...but it does follow through "about" the same distance as I draw the cue back.

As the shot gets softer the cue is drawn back shorter and the follow through is shorter....This allows a free swinging cue and also a stroke that keeps the same relative tempo from stroke to stroke.

so....that being said...I don't have a "Fixed" position that my grip hand will end up...other than that about equal to the backstroke...

Again...probably not your run of the mill certified type of method:wink:

For the grip...I also relate to the golf grip....I have never really referred to the golf grip as "tight" or "loose"....I have always like to refer to it as how "firm" is the grip.

Reason being is that commonly among golf students....when you tell them to use a loose grip they immediately show signs of losing control of the golf club....there are certain points in the swing where the grip will become detached....Another problem is that students typically get real "whippy" with the wrist....By them trying to stay "loose" they lose control of the club.

I think the same kind of thing may happen to pool players that are thinking "keep a loose grip"....I think the wrist gets overly "whippy" and the cue is also no longer being controlled by the player.

I think the proper "firmness" of grip allows the wrist to be relaxed but maintain that bit of "springiness" in the stoke....I feel like the wrist should be similar to the face of a modern day driver....The face of modern day drivers has what is called a trampoline effect. When the golf ball is struck the face has a little bit of give that springs the ball off of the face.

In my opinion...I think the wrist should have that same effect when a good stroke is applied....

I am not sure of the instructor that made this comment about the "firmness" of grip...but I think it is perfect as it describes the right point that is not too firm...or not firm enough.

He said that if you pick up the cue with your grip hand and point it straight out about waist high....The amount of grip pressure it takes to hold the cue pointed straight out is the amount of pressure you want to maintain during a stroke.

I personally think this guy nailed it...:wink:

Take all this for what it is worth...cause I am not a BCA certifed instructor...:wink:

 

[Siz]

One of the snooker instructors who’s name escapes me at the moment, was presenting to a panel which included some former world champions in order to get his certification.
He showed his way of determining the pressure one needs when holding the cue.
He rested the cue tip on the floor and lifted it up to horizontal.
The panel agreed that it was correct pressure for the grip.

It should also be pointed out that snooker players hold their cues right at the end (so it might take a bit more pressure to lever up the cue than it would with a normal pool cue / grip).

 

[Wolven]

It should also be pointed out that snooker players hold their cues right at the end (so it might take a bit more pressure to lever up the cue than it would with a normal pool cue / grip).

not sure, different weight for different cue but snooker cues are a few ounces lighter

 

[BRKNRUN]

Brknrun -

I like your observations on the grip. Very good.

But I am not quite so sure about the variable follow through.

When putting, you can step away from the line and rehearse the whole stroke including the follow through. But in billiards, the rehearsal strokes are stopped short at the cue ball. So you cannot rehearse a short follow when about to play a soft shot and a longer one when you are about to play a harder shot etc. For this reason IMO it is much more important to have a consistent follow through for every shot when playing pool than it is when putting.

But perhaps you don't have any problems with your method?

Actually you can.....When you are standing up (behind the CB) and are creating a picture of the shot you are about to play in your head...You can re-hearse not only the length of stroke you want...but also your ideal tempo.

I see many many players that while looking over the shot are "phantom" stroking...I have watched SVB do that while standing.....They may be doing it just out of habit and/or just for getting loose......I think some do it just because they think it looks cool.....but (IMO)it can actually have a purpose....very similar to practice putting off to the side.

Edit: I should add that there is no specific measurement from shot to shot....and in reality I may not be taking the cue back or thru exactly the same distance....it is more of a feeling that I am doing that.

Sometimes what you feel you are doing and what you are acutally doing are two different things.

Ideally about 90% (or more) of the time I want to use the same stroke and just vary the spot I hit on the CB for more or less follow/draw....sometimes it requires a bit longer stroke

 

[Siz]

Interesting. Personally, I don't visualise every shot before getting down (it takes too much out of me); and when I do visualise a shot, it is only the motion of the balls that I need to mentally rehearse, not my actual stroke.

 

[pooltchr]

Interesting. Personally, I don't visualise every shot before getting down (it takes too much out of me); and when I do visualise a shot, it is only the motion of the balls that I need to mentally rehearse, not my actual stroke.

You are missing out on a huge key part of the process.

Think it (plan your shot)

See it (visualise your shot)

Do it (execute your shot)

Steve