I saw the results of the tour event this weekend. It is not too hard to imagine why regional tours that allow wpba touring pros to play are dying. This weekend Webb and Thornfeldt made an apparence and took 1st and 2nd prize money away from all the regulars that play on the tour. There are not too many amatuers or pros that beat these two ladies. These two anlong with miss Pan made 31 players. This tour used to regularly get 50 players or more. Look at the Hunter tour where they dont allow touring pros. The get 50 to 60 women to play with a high of 72 this year even though world class player Miss Pan was playing. It is time regional tours became what they designed for: to develop players for the major leagues the wpba.
florida spirit tour
- Thread starter amatuer
- Start date
I have alot of friends that play on the Spirit Tour, and a few that are WPBA players.
Personally, I think that WPBA'ers should be allowed in. I think it's better for the tour. There are more than a few spirit tour players who aren't pro that can hold their own - and I think it's great that all the girls get that chance to play the WBPA women. Makes for better players.
Also - why take that chance away from the WPBA players to compete?
Personally, I think that WPBA'ers should be allowed in. I think it's better for the tour. There are more than a few spirit tour players who aren't pro that can hold their own - and I think it's great that all the girls get that chance to play the WBPA women. Makes for better players.
Also - why take that chance away from the WPBA players to compete?
Thanks for your response, especially at 5:52 in the morning. Yes, that is the pat answer. As I said before I have been following this tour for many years and in my opinion it is dying. The room owners become a lot more reluctant to hold events with a small number of entries, because it costs them a lot of money to hold the event. The amount of women that play for the joy of it or the joy of being crushed by great players is very limited.
There are 2 schools of thought about that. One is that the pros should be allowed because if that is the level the regional players want to attain, then they should get used to playing pros at their level.
The other is that to support the poolrooms and get the gals playing in a newbie-friendly atmosphere, the top 16 should not be allowed.
On one hand, I say, "Bring them on!" and on the other, I too see that it could kill the tour's participation. It's hard enough sometimes getting new players to come on out against people like me! Little do they know they get 10 shots per game, lol.
I played in an independent tourney at JOB's and Monica and Helena were there. When I beat Monica on the winner's side, she said, "It really doesn't matter in the long run, we're still going to come in 1st and 2nd." And they did.
The other is that to support the poolrooms and get the gals playing in a newbie-friendly atmosphere, the top 16 should not be allowed.
On one hand, I say, "Bring them on!" and on the other, I too see that it could kill the tour's participation. It's hard enough sometimes getting new players to come on out against people like me! Little do they know they get 10 shots per game, lol.
I played in an independent tourney at JOB's and Monica and Helena were there. When I beat Monica on the winner's side, she said, "It really doesn't matter in the long run, we're still going to come in 1st and 2nd." And they did.
Great post linda, you covered both sides very well. I still think that the regional tours are the minor league to prepare women to play in the majors. A few years ago the newt tour before they banned touring pros( except for state championships) gave the qualifier to the ninth place finisher. That tells you something about pros participating in a tour.
amatuer said:
Well, and that's one of the problems. When you have a bunch of semipros trying to make it into the big leagues, one way is to accrue points over the season. If you keep running into a top pro, it's hard to get any points!
Well everybody's right here and its a really touchy situation and there are a lot of good points to bring up...like yes it is good to have the pro's play because we do get the seasoning and perhaps it would bring in more spectators...but then again all of the events are qualifiers and that makes it really hard for an amature to get the spot and from my perspective it almost comes down to luck whoever gets it. I mean if everyone was an amature playing for the spot then the most deserving amature would recieve it but with all the pros playing at these events it comes down to, alot of times, whoever has the best draw. The spirit tour would definitely get alot more players if the pro's were not allowed to play that is a fact but what can ya do.....you either deal with it or start your own tour ya know.....lol
ya know.....lol
I can see where you are comming from, but you have to see it from another point of view.
Room owners can draw more people in to watch some of the top women players than the up and commers.
These ladies aren't trying to make a living on this tour, they are (most of them) trying to use it as a stepping stone.
If I get the chance to throw my hat in the ring with players like (Williams, Archer, Owens, Homen, Saez, etc.....) I am going to break myself in half trying to get to the table to play. I would think the ladies would feel the same. To get to that level, you need to check yourself against them. Take Ellen for example, she did pretty good on the big show with her qualifier.
I wouldn't think of it as "they are here for the easy take" (which they probably are). You should be excited to play them more than upset they are playing in the 'mini tour', even if you snap it off and win the whole thing, it isn't that much money. I would get more satisfaction knowing that I beat one of them, or had them on the rails, then if I won a tourney with no one in it.
I think they take care of their regional players by passing down the qualifier to the highest placed in the field that isn't already in the tour.
Or, maybe I am just way off and warped that way.
Room owners can draw more people in to watch some of the top women players than the up and commers.
These ladies aren't trying to make a living on this tour, they are (most of them) trying to use it as a stepping stone.
If I get the chance to throw my hat in the ring with players like (Williams, Archer, Owens, Homen, Saez, etc.....) I am going to break myself in half trying to get to the table to play. I would think the ladies would feel the same. To get to that level, you need to check yourself against them. Take Ellen for example, she did pretty good on the big show with her qualifier.
I wouldn't think of it as "they are here for the easy take" (which they probably are). You should be excited to play them more than upset they are playing in the 'mini tour', even if you snap it off and win the whole thing, it isn't that much money. I would get more satisfaction knowing that I beat one of them, or had them on the rails, then if I won a tourney with no one in it.
I think they take care of their regional players by passing down the qualifier to the highest placed in the field that isn't already in the tour.
Or, maybe I am just way off and warped that way.
I can see where the top ranked 20% of the tour might like to play the pros because they think that their skill level is close to their's. (Which, when they play the pros, they soon find out that it isn't) But the bottom 80% sure don't like it because now they have no chance in a tournament. If they have to play the pro they certainly will lose. And the odds of their winning against the top ranked 20% of the tour is pretty slim too. And since they are playing for points to end up high, or at least high enough to win something at the end of the season, playing the pro thakes that away from them. So in effect they are just throwing their money away and when they realize that then they just quit playing in the tour.
I had to play Tracie Hines in the KBP Tour. Although it was interesting and fun I didn't think it was right that she should be allowed to play in the Amateur tournament. I had to play my really best against her just to give her some competition but in the end it still was a big "L" for me. (She got lucky with her freaking jump cue).
If I want to play the pros I can always go to Capone's on Monday night and play in the $15 Open where I might get beat by Rodney, Earl, Robb, Tony, Tracie, etc rather than spend $40 on the KBT.
But I really do think that the price of gas has really caught up to the players and they just can't afford to drive all over the state anymore.
Jake
I had to play Tracie Hines in the KBP Tour. Although it was interesting and fun I didn't think it was right that she should be allowed to play in the Amateur tournament. I had to play my really best against her just to give her some competition but in the end it still was a big "L" for me. (She got lucky with her freaking jump cue).
If I want to play the pros I can always go to Capone's on Monday night and play in the $15 Open where I might get beat by Rodney, Earl, Robb, Tony, Tracie, etc rather than spend $40 on the KBT.
But I really do think that the price of gas has really caught up to the players and they just can't afford to drive all over the state anymore.
Jake
The orginal mission of the Ladies Florida Tour which is now the Spirit tour was to create a place for women to play competitive pool. Because at that time in 1997 there was no place for women to play. It was also a stepping stone to the WPBA. As of late I think the competition is too strong and the average player, even above average isn't willing to spend her money for a weekend of her time to compete against pros and go home with nothing.
Because of that I play on the Ladies Kings Bay Tour that takes one day and doesn't allow pros. At least Florida has something for everyone...
PHM
Because of that I play on the Ladies Kings Bay Tour that takes one day and doesn't allow pros. At least Florida has something for everyone...
PHM
I believe that it has helped the tour tremendously. Bonnie and Heather have worked very hard to attain more tour sponsors and they always gove 100% at every single event. Having players such as Ga Young Kim,XTP, Ming Ng, Tiffany Nelson, Sarah Ellerby, Jeannie Seaver, Vivian Villareal, Tracie Hines, Miyuki Sakai and others has only strengthened the level of competition at these events and that is a plus for all the LST players. I believe that Debbie Schjodt was able to defeat Ga Young at a WPBA event earlier this year in Oregon. To many people that was surprise. While watching Debbie play at the Regional Tour Championships, I commented to Voodoo Daddy that Debbie's game is peaking and that she will definitely move up to the next level and score upsets against some of the top players in the WPBA. This is because of the level of competition on The Ladie's Spirit Tour has acclimated her to playing the game at the highest level. If a decision was made to water down the competition, then I believe that would be a very bad decision.
I firmly believe that players like Crystal McCormick, Bonnie Coats, Ellen Van Buren, Jeannie Seaver, Jessica Barnes, Helene Caulkin, and Debbie Schjodt have benefited immeasurably from the level of competition provided at these events. I have spoken with many players from other parts of the country that said they would kill to have that level of competition at their events. I believe that tours such as the LST and NEWT have done a fantastic job preparing players to advance to the WPBA. This is due to the dedication by people like Barbara Stock, Bonnie Coats and Heather Barkley that do their very best to organize, run, & play in these events simultaneously (which is no walk in the park).
Also, last year Ga Young Kim won the June event, which is held just prior to the WPBA Cuetec Classic in Hollywood, Florida. It is no secret to any of the players that most of the WPBA ladies are in Florida this month.
I firmly believe that players like Crystal McCormick, Bonnie Coats, Ellen Van Buren, Jeannie Seaver, Jessica Barnes, Helene Caulkin, and Debbie Schjodt have benefited immeasurably from the level of competition provided at these events. I have spoken with many players from other parts of the country that said they would kill to have that level of competition at their events. I believe that tours such as the LST and NEWT have done a fantastic job preparing players to advance to the WPBA. This is due to the dedication by people like Barbara Stock, Bonnie Coats and Heather Barkley that do their very best to organize, run, & play in these events simultaneously (which is no walk in the park).
Also, last year Ga Young Kim won the June event, which is held just prior to the WPBA Cuetec Classic in Hollywood, Florida. It is no secret to any of the players that most of the WPBA ladies are in Florida this month.
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Blackjack, you have expanded on the pat answer that people have given for years. You did not address the problem of declining attendance at events. The last event had 28 Forida players +Pan+webb+thornfeldt. They used to get forty to fifty players at an event. Without support from the florida players the tour becomes very unhealthy. If the fields get any smaller you will see many pool room owners reluctant to hold tournaments. Also the menbership money which is one of the main ways bonnie and heather make money will go down significantly. While I agree that the touring pros may bring in more customers to the pool hall, I think the impact is very limited.
amateur and BlackJack,
JPNEWT never totally banned WPBA Touring Pros from playing in all the events - I always left it up to the RO or whomever put up the monies for the event to decide. but the State Championships are always open to the TPs.
I'm experiencing a downsizing of the playing field even without any TPs being allowed to play in events. I've discussed this at great lengths with the previous Tour Coordinators and even Dawn Hopkins has jumped in to help me figure this out.
I'm going to come up with a questionnaire for my membership as to why some no longer play (I still keep them on my adddress list for two years after their membership expires). I don' think it's all about letting the TPs play. amatuer mentioned playing a 1-day event to which I'd like to know, when did you start, how many tables were needed/used, and when did it end?
And Dave, thanks for the kind words. I really appreciated that.
Barbara
JPNEWT never totally banned WPBA Touring Pros from playing in all the events - I always left it up to the RO or whomever put up the monies for the event to decide. but the State Championships are always open to the TPs.
I'm experiencing a downsizing of the playing field even without any TPs being allowed to play in events. I've discussed this at great lengths with the previous Tour Coordinators and even Dawn Hopkins has jumped in to help me figure this out.
I'm going to come up with a questionnaire for my membership as to why some no longer play (I still keep them on my adddress list for two years after their membership expires). I don' think it's all about letting the TPs play. amatuer mentioned playing a 1-day event to which I'd like to know, when did you start, how many tables were needed/used, and when did it end?
And Dave, thanks for the kind words. I really appreciated that.
Barbara
Barbara said:
I think it's time to start prospecting. Around here, there are a lot of women playing in amateur leagues (APA, TAP, etc). A few have played the NEWT tour too. Maybe if you hit these bar leagues and posted flyers in the bars with leagues and local poolrooms, it might bring in some "new blood". Sometimes, it might just be a matter of persistance. Maybe a hook like a 50% discount on yearly membership if you have a league card?
Eric
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
Blackjack said:
BlackJack and I spoke of several Florida player during that weekend, Debbie's been triple tough for some time as is Bonnie Coats. Florida is the place to be this month is right...
Dave, lunch on me at the Seminole?
Eric. said:
Well Dawn and I were talking the other day and we broached the subject of league players and how to tap into that resource. I pointed out that the majority of these players do not play on 9' tables, let alone 8 footers, and we always play on the 9 footers. So she suggested varying the entry fee to accommodate the skill levels of the players. Like maybe $30 for the league player, $40 for the Amateur/Semi-Pro player, and $50 for the Pro+ player. And note that she mentioned PRO players. Dawn strongly suggests that I open all my events (even the $500-added ones) to ALL players. She would like to come up to an event, such as Comet, and be able to play because she wants the competition. Of course, all I have to do is remind her who knocked her out of the NJ State event last year
and I do get a moment of silence.
But I digress.Eric, I have had Rich S. get in touch with the LOs in that area and distributed flyers to the teams, but I get no response. I have had a couple newbies come in, play, and get so overwhelmed by the competition, I never see them come back!
Barbara
amatuer said:
I still don't see how this would really effect anything. I work with some of the ladies that compete on the LST and quite frankly nobody cares who shows up to play and who deosn't. If Ga Young shows up, she shows up. Its really no big deal. As Barbara pointed out, participation is down on many of the regional tours, and it is probably due to a variety of different issues, not solely because of the top pro's playing in the events. I've attended a majority of the LST events this year and with the exception of the event at Rax in Titusville, the events were all well attended. (Not a knock on Rax, but it was impossible to view any of the matches anyway, prog8r and I stretched our necks trying to watch the matches in the back) - nonetheless, I wouldn't worry about the tour dying anytime soon. The pros are playing in these events to tune up for the WPBA events, which says a lot. I think it just adds more prestige to winning an event or a qualifying spot while competing on this tour.
and Barbara... I don't know how you ladies can do all of that stuff at once and still shoot a great game. Kelly did an awesome job in Vero Beach and should be rewarded with a vacation to Florida for a job well done. Many event organizers and tour directors are not given the credit they deserve for the hard work that goes on behind the scenes with preparation, organizing, dealing with players and their "issues" etc. Getting tour sponsorship and added money is no easy task, nor is keeping up with players, room owners, or Murphy's Law. I'm amazed Eydie got out of Disney with her sanity last summer. So much goes on behind the scenes that players and fans are unaware of, yet someone has to do it. FWIW, the success of the tours is not dependent upon who plays in the event and who does not. The success is measured by whether or not fans support these events by showing up and supporting the game of pool. The more fan support that is received at these events, the easier it is to sell the event to a vendor, sponsor, or room owner/venue the next year. This is why it is extremely important for everybody to support these tours/events whenever they have the chance.
Barbara said:Well Dawn and I were talking the other day and we broached the subject of league players and how to tap into that resource. I pointed out that the majority of these players do not play on 9' tables, let alone 8 footers, and we always play on the 9 footers. So she suggested varying the entry fee to accommodate the skill levels of the players. Like maybe $30 for the league player, $40 for the Amateur/Semi-Pro player, and $50 for the Pro+ player. And note that she mentioned PRO players. Dawn strongly suggests that I open all my events (even the $500-added ones) to ALL players. She would like to come up to an event, such as Comet, and be able to play because she wants the competition. Of course, all I have to do is remind her who knocked her out of the NJ State event last year
Eric, I have had Rich S. get in touch with the LOs in that area and distributed flyers to the teams, but I get no response. I have had a couple newbies come in, play, and get so overwhelmed by the competition, I never see them come back!
Barbara
I think Dawn might be a bit biased. I think any touring pro should pay double and then on top of that an extra $10 or so for every ranking position above 13- So Allison would pay double plus $120 and she would still be getting 2 or 3-1, good odds for her even if Karen was playing.