Foam...

[Dave38]

I am perfectly relaxed, when you have nothing specific to say in relation to a specific question, pass your turn, at least on my threads, I hate your way of doing things which changes the very direction of the thread, you still need a minimum maturity to understand that.

You asked:
f we take 2 different foams to fill a carbon shaft, the 2 foams have the same density, example 23 lbs/ft3, one is flexible and the other rigid like concrete, which will give the best results, among other things deflection, Thank You!

Kim answered:
I have built quite a few shafts, where about 1/3 of the shaft from the joint have a denser foam, then a lighter foam in the rest of the shaft. Does it make a big difference? Not really, but it does change the final weight and balance somewhat. I second @kling&allen suggestion about testing it out for yourself, so you get a first hand experience. Build two shafts where everything is the same except for the foam and do a A/B comparison and let players and friends you trust try them too.


Pretty much was an answer towards your question, unless you can't read....may not be THE answer you want to hear, but it was on topic, Even Chris Hightower feels you attacked for no reason......use your own advice .... don't like the answer, just go on by it and move on...so please stop being an asshat!

 

[j2pac]

True to form, you have nothing of value to say regarding the specific question about the rigidity of foam but you comment anyway, you tell me to try it for myself, imagine I thought about it without your help with that, but if I ask the question here, it is to find out if anyone has already experienced it.

Unless I am missing something in translation, you are receiving some very helpful information/responses.
Best
j2

 

[EL Picos]

You asked:
f we take 2 different foams to fill a carbon shaft, the 2 foams have the same density, example 23 lbs/ft3, one is flexible and the other rigid like concrete, which will give the best results, among other things deflection, Thank You!

Kim answered:
I have built quite a few shafts, where about 1/3 of the shaft from the joint have a denser foam, then a lighter foam in the rest of the shaft. Does it make a big difference? Not really, but it does change the final weight and balance somewhat. I second @kling&allen suggestion about testing it out for yourself, so you get a first hand experience. Build two shafts where everything is the same except for the foam and do a A/B comparison and let players and friends you trust try them too.


Pretty much was an answer towards your question, unless you can't read....may not be THE answer you want to hear, but it was on topic, Even Chris Hightower feels you attacked for no reason......use your own advice .... don't like the answer, just go on by it and move on...so please stop being an asshat!

How does Kim Bye's answer that you put forward mention everything related to the rigidity of the foam, the subject of my question? Absolutely nothing!!! He also told me to take the test myself, so imagine if I had decided to take the test myself I wouldn't be asking the question here. When someone asks a question on a forum like here and is asked to try it for themselves, tell me what's smart about that. And if I answered like that, it's because it's not the first time that this guy intervenes on my threads and answers everything except the subject of the question itself. It's the ones who answer everything except the questions asked that you need to tell you to move on. When everyone answers something other than the questions asked, it cuts the thread, you should know that.

 

[EL Picos]

Unless I am missing something in translation, you are receiving some very helpful information/responses.
Best
j2

Everything except the question I asked and also to experience it for myself, if everyone would experience everything for themselves it would be better to close this forum, it would no longer have any use and what's more it bears the title from ''ASK THE CUEMAKER'', Ask the cuemaker to tell you to experiment for yourself.

 

[Hard Knock Cues]

Everything except the question I asked and also to experience it for myself, if everyone would experience everything for themselves it would be better to close this forum, it would no longer have any use and what's more it bears the title from ''ASK THE CUEMAKER'', Ask the cuemaker to tell you to experiment for yourself.

You have asked the cue makers and some of the ones that have a lot of experience answered in a way that I felt was totally legit. We are all learning a little something here and you're turning it into shit with you're attitude. Take what you get and then find out for yourself.

 

[GoldCrown]

Down with Kim Bye. And to hell with you cue makers. Answer the question you cockroaches

 

[kling&allen]

This is the Dr Dave page I mentioned, where he shows the math behind the primacy of end mass determining deflection and opines that stiffness has little impact due to the minimal contact time the cue is in contact with the cue ball.

Shaft Endmass and Stiffness Effects - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the effects of shaft endmass and stiffness on squirt in pool and billiards.

billiards.colostate.edu

Without a robot to do side by side testing, I don’t think you can get better analysis than this on the deflection question.

I’ve thought about stuffing the next CF shaft I make with cat hair.

 

[GoldCrown]

I’ve thought about stuffing the next CF shaft I make with cat hair.

Don’t .. Cat hair will make the shooter Dog shots

 

[SSDiver2112]

You have asked the cue makers and some of the ones that have a lot of experience answered in a way that I felt was totally legit. We are all learning a little something here and you're turning it into shit with you're attitude. Take what you get and then find out for yourself.

People answer the questions the way they interpret the question. The answers given had good information. If you don't get the exact answer you specifically wanted, then you have to continue to converse with everyone to guide the conversation the way you intended.

If you were standing in a room of people and asked someone a question and they answered you, would you suddenly start yelling at them or would you say something like "no I understand that, but what I meant was....". Conversation and debate are getting lost to the anonymity of the internet.

My understanding of the answer is if something is very dense, it will usually be more ridged as well. The answer was sound. If you disagree, debate the answer in a civilized way. The OP turned instantly combative and negative turning a good question I was interested in learning about into a Sh*t show.

my 2¢

Scott

 

[EL Picos]

This is the Dr Dave page I mentioned, where he shows the math behind the primacy of end mass determining deflection and opines that stiffness has little impact due to the minimal contact time the cue is in contact with the cue ball.

Shaft Endmass and Stiffness Effects - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the effects of shaft endmass and stiffness on squirt in pool and billiards.

billiards.colostate.edu

Without a robot to do side by side testing, I don’t think you can get better analysis than this on the deflection question.

I’ve thought about stuffing the next CF shaft I make with cat hair.

Thanks for your answer, I just thought someone might have tested it here. Smooth 0n makes two foams like other companies, a flexible line and a hard line, the harder ones are hard like cement, these are versions A+B and available from 3 to 26 lbs/ft3.

 

[GoldCrown]

People answer the questions the way they interpret the question. The answers given had good information. If you don't get the exact answer you specifically wanted, then you have to continue to converse with everyone to guide the conversation the way you intended.

If you were standing in a room of people and asked someone a question and they answered you, would you suddenly start yelling at them or would you say something like "no I understand that, but what I meant was....". Conversation and debate are getting lost to the anonymity of the internet.

My understanding of the answer is if something is very dense, it will usually be more ridged as well. The answer was sound. If you disagree, debate the answer in a civilized way. The OP turned instantly combative and negative turning a good question I was interested in learning about into a Sh*t show.

my 2¢

Scott

Good post. I think the answers were positive/constructive. As for the question … if for curiosity that fine. Otherwise is it rubbing 2 rocks together to see what happens.

 

[erriep]

IMHO if multiple kind of foams are used in a shaft , that's at first to adjust the weight , then to adjust the sound/ping produced by the shaft.
about the noise/sound, super hard foam will produce higher frequency sound spectrum, so you could hear a more 'metallic' kind of sound, the soft foam will decrease/absorb some harmonics, lowering the pitch & the level of the sound , producing a more "quiet" sound.

speaking about the kind of sound produced by an extremelly stiff foam , IMHO that wouldn't sound good for many players. Except for the oldies who don't wear their earing aids, since they lost so many high frequencies than they could like such shafts mouahahahaha.

 

[EL Picos]

People answer the questions the way they interpret the question. The answers given had good information. If you don't get the exact answer you specifically wanted, then you have to continue to converse with everyone to guide the conversation the way you intended.

If you were standing in a room of people and asked someone a question and they answered you, would you suddenly start yelling at them or would you say something like "no I understand that, but what I meant was....". Conversation and debate are getting lost to the anonymity of the internet.

My understanding of the answer is if something is very dense, it will usually be more ridged as well. The answer was sound. If you disagree, debate the answer in a civilized way. The OP turned instantly combative and negative turning a good question I was interested in learning about into a Sh*t show.

my 2¢

Scott

Density versus flexibility/rigidity are 2 totally different things, we can take 2 things of the same and good density and one will be flexible like rubber and the other rigid like glass and this is also the case among foam, one can bend 180 degrees and the other is rigid like cement at the same weight. For the rest you will have to experience it yourself.

 

[EL Picos]

IMHO if multiple kind of foams are used in a shaft , that's at first to adjust the weight , then to adjust the sound/ping produced by the shaft.
about the noise/sound, super hard foam will produce higher frequency sound spectrum, so you could hear a more 'metallic' kind of sound, the soft foam will decrease/absorb some harmonics, lowering the pitch & the level of the sound , producing a more "quiet" sound.

speaking about the kind of sound produced by an extremelly stiff foam , IMHO that wouldn't sound good for many players. Except for the oldies who don't wear their earing aids, since they lost so many high frequencies than they could like such shafts mouahahahaha.

Oh!! Thank you for responding to the subject of this thread, your response is very interesting in terms of sound and therefore vibration, Thanks again!!

 

[Kim Bye]

Don't forget how different types of foam and different densities affect sound. In my experience, this is something players react to a lot more than the amount of deflection.
The soft foams used for things like props does dampen the sound more than a regular 2 part PU foam inteded for the boat industry.
There are multiple companies selling 2 part foams and even though the may have the same density rating, how much they expand and thus how large air bubbles you get has a bearing on the final product.
The carbon fibre tube itself will obviously be the part of the shaft that has the most impact on the final product. A 1mm wall thickness vs 1.5mm is quite different in terms of feel and stifness.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Thanks for your answer, I just thought someone might have tested it here. Smooth 0n makes two foams like other companies, a flexible line and a hard line, the harder ones are hard like cement, these are versions A+B and available from 3 to 26 lbs/ft3.

Why in the world would ANYONE use a foam that's as hard as cement on an already very stiff CF tubes ?
I bet NOBODY here has even tried doing it .
Unfoamed CF blanks are some $60 from verbs and other suppliers .
Since nobody here has done, you might as well experiment yourself .
I can't count the number of shafts I used as dummies .

 

[JoeyInCali]

Don't forget how different types of foam and different densities affect sound. In my experience, this is something players react to a lot more than the amount of deflection.
The soft foams used for things like props does dampen the sound more than a regular 2 part PU foam inteded for the boat industry.
There are multiple companies selling 2 part foams and even though the may have the same density rating, how much they expand and thus how large air bubbles you get has a bearing on the final product.
The carbon fibre tube itself will obviously be the part of the shaft that has the most impact on the final product. A 1mm wall thickness vs 1.5mm is quite different in terms of feel and stifness.

They're all noisy to me . And they don't buckle .
Even the 1MM thick ones . I'd go with .9mm if I had to play with one .
The front end is still not low-end mass to me .
I was gonna take out 5 inches of foam and plugging the top with hydex202 but just gave up on the experiment as I don't get many cf requests .
They make for good breakers though.

 

[EL Picos]

Why in the world would ANYONE use a foam that's as hard as cement on an already very stiff CF tubes ?
I bet NOBODY here has even tried doing it .
Unfoamed CF blanks are some $60 from verbs and other suppliers .
Since nobody here has done, you might as well experiment yourself .

Why in the world would ANYONE use a foam that's as hard as cement on an already very stiff CF tubes ?
I bet NOBODY here has even tried doing it .
Unfoamed CF blanks are some $60 from verbs and other suppliers .
Since nobody here has done, you might as well experiment yourself .
I can't count the number of shafts I used as dummies .

I can't count the number of shafts I used as dummies .

There are many who use very hard foam, many of which sell pre-filled tubes for your information.
And you can say that no one here has experienced that, everyone should speak for themselves and not the others, it would be more constructive and there would be less disagreement. By the way there is a very big difference in deflection between a filled shaft and another up to 6 inches from the tip. A nice thickness is 0.8mm any tube thicker is a bit crap regarding deflection. I have never tried very hard foam which is why I asked the question, my expectations were not to receive answers from those who have not tried it, there are some who pass on the site which have experienced this, the world does not end after the few off-topic responses that I received, the off-topic responses scrap the threads, you probably know that.

 

[Hard Knock Cues]

There are many who use very hard foam, many of which sell pre-filled tubes for your information.
And you can say that no one here has experienced that, everyone should speak for themselves and not the others, it would be more constructive and there would be less disagreement. By the way there is a very big difference in deflection between a filled shaft and another up to 6 inches from the tip. A nice thickness is 0.8mm any tube thicker is a bit crap regarding deflection. I have never tried very hard foam which is why I asked the question, my expectations were not to receive answers from those who have not tried it, there are some who pass on the site which have experienced this, the world does not end after the few off-topic responses that I received, the off-topic responses scrap the threads, you probably know that.

I wonder if you'll get any responses on the next thread you start!
This is not the way to have a discussion. It's all been good information regardless of whether you got the exact answer you are looking for.

 

[boogieman]

Density versus flexibility/rigidity are 2 totally different things, we can take 2 things of the same and good density and one will be flexible like rubber and the other rigid like glass and this is also the case among foam, one can bend 180 degrees and the other is rigid like cement at the same weight. For the rest you will have to experience it yourself.

I am not a cuemaker. Common sense says the CF tube is what is giving rigidity. If they have the same density I doubt there will be much difference. They might sound a bit different or you might feel a bit more vibration in the stiffer foam, but deflection should be the same if they are the same density.