Focus vs. The Wondrous Mind

[chefjeff]

No wonder it took Basavich 3 minutes to shoot a straight in 9-ball.

lol...and this is just the parts of my shot dealing with focus.

Actually, I've overlearned how to do all of these things so that now they're mostly done subconsciously and require little thought or time to realize them.

However, I had to work, work, and then work some more to acheive this. The main part of the work was ELIMINATING the negatives, not adding the positives of, in the case of this thread, focus. And the main tool I used for this task of elimination was my conscious mind. It allows me to filter out the muck so my subconscious mind doesn't end up loaded with harmful crap, thus making that whole process a piece of cake! Easy as pie! Just shake and serve! Poppin' fresh! It's like butter!

Jeff Livingston

 

[BRKNRUN]

It seems like we have a bit of a dichotomy here between the old geezer threads that lay the blame on a decline of abilities in later years to lack of focus...and another camp of players espousing the "wondrous mind" and just letting that take over as you play in your Zen like state.

If you're focusing quite intensely, trying to maintain your focus, or trying to regain your focus...that whole process seems to be working in direct opposition to the "wondrous mind" theory.

What I want to know is, when does the "wondrous mind" turn into the "wondering" mind. IMO, I feel that focus is an absolute MUST. You don't have very much time between shots or while down ON a shot. But I also think that you can short-circuit yourself by over focusing and over analyzing.

So where and when do you apply the focus? What do you need to focus on the most even if it's for a matter of 1 or 2 seconds? I know where I'M going to do it...need I say? Where would you do it...or should you be entirely in a state of nothingness?

Look at it this way...we can only make one ball at a time. Therefore that ONE ball needs our undivided attention. If you had a shot on the 9 or 8 ball on a 50 yard line spot of the table, whatever your game of choice is, for $5,000 and if you miss the money is coming out of YOUR pocket, what would your brain be working on....something (if so, what), or nothing?

Hmmmm....I may take a slightly different angle on this shot....

I tend to think that the focus is your initial imagination of the "entire" shot, and then after you set up "perfectly" your mind can now shut off and "enjoy" watching the results of a cleanly pocketed ball with perfect shape...(that you have visualized)

Think about it this way...Once your set up you can close you eyes and still pocket a ball...what were you looking at or thinking during that shot??....The only thing I am thinking about is the visualization of the shot that I had already come up with prior to getting down on the shot...

I have run a full 9-ball rack by closing my eyes just before I shoot...What was I focused on during those shots????

Your eyes can actually be a distraction. If your eyes shitft during the actual stroke, it can cause your brain to short circuit, which I believe is what causes the "yips" or in pool...the jump up or slide......

I think that perhaps the harder you try and "focus" the easier it is for that very brief loss of focus at the actual stroke and thus the yips.

I find that when I am in "dead punch" ...(which can happen for a brief moment) I am only focused on the set up, and then It's as if I just closed my eyes and enjoyed the outcome of the shot...but I am unable to remember what I was looking at...or for that matter can rarely remember each shot in the run out...

It's when some "doubt" finds its way into the process that causes me to be aware of the "focus" on the OB that leads to the destruction of a run out.....More often for me...I am able to focus on making the shot...but I did not take the time to "visualize the entire shot" all the way through the CB's final stopping point and thus, I pocket the ball, but am now no where near where I need to be for the next shot...


In short...."focus" on the preshot and set up...then enjoy the outcome...

Actually ....just typing this out made me think of something...I need to simply change my shot visualization process....Instead of looking at pocketing the ball first and shape second, perhaps shape on the next shot should be looked at first, pocketing the ball second....

 

[Addicted2CuesRU]

What I want to know is, when does the "wondrous mind" turn into the "wondering" mind. IMO, I feel that focus is an absolute MUST. You don't have very much time between shots or while down ON a shot. But I also think that you can short-circuit yourself by over focusing and over analyzing.

So where and when do you apply the focus? What do you need to focus on the most even if it's for a matter of 1 or 2 seconds? I know where I'M going to do it...need I say? Where would you do it...or should you be entirely in a state of nothingness?

Its like that Seinfeld episode where Mr. Pitt is trying to see the sailboat in the "Magic" Picture painting... "You guys said out of focus, but its really DEEP Focus..."

I am of the Wondrous Mind school (but maybe thats why I am a hack) sometimes I play out of my mind, but it is very easy to break my concentration... If I happen to get mad at my opponent I get into the ZEN like state easier... If mad turns to rage my game turns to dodo...

I think I need to see a Billiards shrink... But I guess even though I subscribe to the Wondrous Mind theory, I am working on a more "deliberate" approach... The things that you do when you are being very deliberate are always right there with you when in that Zen State of mind...

my 2 pennies...

 

[OldHasBeen]

Another Analogy!

When young - we feel invincible - therefore, we are full of confidence.
As we age we become more & more cynical and lose not only some of our confidence but also some of our concentration, which affects our ability to be consistent.

I have always preached the three C's as bring what it takes to be a top-notch player.
- Concentration
- Confidence
- Consistency

When these three elements are present - We Are "In-Stroke"!

Another way to look at this is -
The younger players are looking for reasons to win.
The older players are looking for reasons Not To Lose.

TY & GL

 

[Colin Colenso]

Do you guys think that with all these discussions about aim, focus, etc. that you sometimes overcomplicate the game? I know they are important and I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything but I think sometimes just simply playing the game and not overanalyzing every facet of it might help some. JMO.

Opie,
I think it's a good question, but I believe analysis is crucial.

There's no doubt many players suffer from paralysis by bad analysis, but all good players I've met are obsessed by the game and spend years with internal mental analytical processes.

I think the ones who succeed are the ones who focus on the appropriate analysis.

This is why some advice from top players can revolutionize our experience.

I regret I never had a good teacher in my youth in some ways. It delayed my progress. I went about it the hard way teaching myself. I eventually learned a better way, but I wasted years of hard work trying to do things the wrong way I believe.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Hmmmm....I may take a slightly different angle on this shot....

I tend to think that the focus is your initial imagination of the "entire" shot, and then after you set up "perfectly" your mind can now shut off and "enjoy" watching the results of a cleanly pocketed ball with perfect shape...(that you have visualized)

Think about it this way...Once your set up you can close you eyes and still pocket a ball...what were you looking at or thinking during that shot??....The only thing I am thinking about is the visualization of the shot that I had already come up with prior to getting down on the shot...

I have run a full 9-ball rack by closing my eyes just before I shoot...What was I focused on during those shots????

Your eyes can actually be a distraction. If your eyes shitft during the actual stroke, it can cause your brain to short circuit, which I believe is what causes the "yips" or in pool...the jump up or slide......

I think that perhaps the harder you try and "focus" the easier it is for that very brief loss of focus at the actual stroke and thus the yips.

I find that when I am in "dead punch" ...(which can happen for a brief moment) I am only focused on the set up, and then It's as if I just closed my eyes and enjoyed the outcome of the shot...but I am unable to remember what I was looking at...or for that matter can rarely remember each shot in the run out...

It's when some "doubt" finds its way into the process that causes me to be aware of the "focus" on the OB that leads to the destruction of a run out.....More often for me...I am able to focus on making the shot...but I did not take the time to "visualize the entire shot" all the way through the CB's final stopping point and thus, I pocket the ball, but am now no where near where I need to be for the next shot...


In short...."focus" on the preshot and set up...then enjoy the outcome...

Actually ....just typing this out made me think of something...I need to simply change my shot visualization process....Instead of looking at pocketing the ball first and shape second, perhaps shape on the next shot should be looked at first, pocketing the ball second....

BRKNRUN,
A couple of good points you made!

Not much point looking for the pot line until you've decided the position line, though in analysis while observing from pre-set-up position both need to be considered for playability.

Re: Close your eyes. Sure, I think this makes a lot of sense. Though I believe many players make shots due to subconscious variations during execution, it is not a good habit. Actually watching the balls during shotmaking is more important in practicing, so that one can make the appropriate adjustments.

Though closing one's eyes during the shot tends to make it harder to keep still. So I would always play with eyes open. There is also the consideration that playing comps on a strange table, it is always good to analyse the responses of speed, rail defelections etc to adjust better to that table.

 

[Egg McDogit]

Yes.

Jeff Livingston

ok then, you got action. but I need the 6 and the breaks because the level of your concentration scares me

 

[chefjeff]

ok then, you got action. but I need the 6 and the breaks because the level of your concentration scares me

Ha ha...the 6 and the breaks. No dice. Besides, the 6 doesn't help you in 8-ball.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Egg McDogit]

Ha ha...the 6 and the breaks. No dice. Besides, the 6 doesn't help you in 8-ball.

Jeff Livingston

ok I'll show you some heart and play your game. all I'm asking is you shoot the 8 ball last pocket. you're probably an apa 6 or 7 so I have no chance...but you should bet more

 

[BRKNRUN]

BRKNRUN,
A couple of good points you made!

Not much point looking for the pot line until you've decided the position line, though in analysis while observing from pre-set-up position both need to be considered for playability.

Re: Close your eyes. Sure, I think this makes a lot of sense. Though I believe many players make shots due to subconscious variations during execution, it is not a good habit. Actually watching the balls during shotmaking is more important in practicing, so that one can make the appropriate adjustments.

Though closing one's eyes during the shot tends to make it harder to keep still. So I would always play with eyes open. There is also the consideration that playing comps on a strange table, it is always good to analyse the responses of speed, rail defelections etc to adjust better to that table.

I understand what your saying about the visual feedback during practice and I totally agree that you need visual feedback..

However....There are some key benefits (at least for me) by spending a few minutes hitting shots closing my eyes just before I take the actual stroke...

The routine is to set up and get alinged for the shot....I will take my one or two warm up strokes...when I come to the pause at the CB just before I take my actual stroke. I will have transitioned my eyes to the visual on the OB that I am intending to shoot...I will then close my eyes and take the actual stoke.

Here are the benefits of this drill. (at least for me)

It actually makes my whole body stay still during the stroke...(there is no need for head raise or body movement since my eyes are closed)...and for me it is acutally much easier to stay still.

It helps me make sure that my focus has settled on the OB aim point instead of still "transitioning" between CB and OB...

It also helps with learning to "feel" how hard or soft to hit shots...Since your relying on the image in your mind for not only pocketing the ball but the CB path and distance for shape on the next shot.....

Try this....Hit some balls and get warmed up...Do this drill on straight in shots for a while until you can make shots regularly.....Then, play a few racks of 9-ball this way....Then, play some normally with your eyes open and see just how much more solid your stroke / feel / shape etc. is when you now have the added visual feedback.

I personally think it's a powerful drill to do during practice. Think about it this way...When you cut off one of your senses...what happens to the others???? They develop into stronger senses to offset the one lost........JMO

 

[chefjeff]

ok I'll show you some heart and play your game. all I'm asking is you shoot the 8 ball last pocket. you're probably an apa 6 or 7 so I have no chance...but you should bet more

Ha ha, again. If I want to go to Vegas, I buy my own tickets, not someone else's, as your avatar suggest.

I hardly ever bet anymore....the only times are when I'm prepping for a tournament or something similar, and then it's for peanuts. You can come here and gamble with me, but it'll not be worth your time or money, even if you happen to win....oh, which would be impossible anyway

Jeff Livingston

 

[lewdo26]

I think that all these aiming threads and thinking threads
are nothing more than the age old argument of

natural vs. logic players
(artist vs. engineer players)
I have always heard that even if a player is a natural
player, as he becomes older that he goes more towards
being more of a logic player.

I have a natural state for shooting I call my light zone
state in which I focus without much thinking at all except
for thinking about table layout. Most of the shooting is
second nature, and a thought only passes through my head
IF there is an exception to the shot, like having to spin the
cue ball more than normal, or having to finesse the cue ball
between 2 balls, or how I have to hit a breakout. My heavy
zone state is the same except more focused, comes easier,
and everything I do seems right on.

But, I have another state too, and this one usually arises
when I am under a great deal of pressure. It is a highly
consciously thinking state where I consider all my options
on every shot, and consider everything I can think of that
might go wrong. I have countless thoughts running through
my head, BUT I have played some of my VERY BEST Pool
under these conditions. For example, hill to hill on a $1,000
set to 11, and deciding to kick in the 9 instead of going for
a bank (with the 9 frozen to the foot rail) - I kicked it perfect.
Being down 10-1 in a $400 set, and coming back to go
hill-to-hill, and only lost because cue ball did a funny roll on
the 6 ball. Being down 6-1 against a friend of mine in a big
tournament and better player than me, and coming back to
beat him 7-6. Being down $1500 in a 3 man ring game for
$50 a man per game, and coming back and running 11 racks
of 9 ball in a row, and eventually getting even.

All these were 'not normal' conditions, times when I had to get
my 'mo-jo' going, time when I was consciously thinking all the
time about everything. I have been told by more than 1 player
that I have one of the toughest mental games they ever played
against, I just like to think that I have some heart, and I do not
like to lose.

The point is, if consciously thinking things gets in the way
of playing and aiming, why have I played my very best when
I have been in that type of state. To me, it seems to blow
holes in most of your theories. Now, I know, it has been
stated that a person does about 30% better when they
consciously think about what they are doing as opposed
to just getting up there to do it without thinking. What
do you think about that?

This is a great post. How come no one has responded to it? I have had similar experiences, Snapshot, although at a much lower level of competency.

But the question still begs an answer: If thinking "too much" (what that means is yet to be established) cripples your play, what accounts for Archer, Jeremy Jones, Souquet, etc.?

I'd say, perhaps incorrectly, that any amount of conscious thinking is fair game while standing up. It's only when you're down on the shot that conscious thinking can mess things up for you. If you're going to have any conscious thought at all while down, it should be something very simple, like, "stay down." The moment you ask the ill-timed question of whether the ball is going in the hole, you're dead.

Am I on the right track?

 

[Opie]

Being down $1500 in a 3 man ring game for
$50 a man per game, and coming back and running 11 racks
of 9 ball in a row, and eventually getting even.

 

[chefjeff]

This is a great post. How come no one has responded to it? I have had similar experiences, Snapshot, although at a much lower level of competency.

But the question still begs an answer: If thinking "too much" (what that means is yet to be established) cripples your play, what accounts for Archer, Jeremy Jones, Souquet, etc.?

I'd say, perhaps incorrectly, that any amount of conscious thinking is fair game while standing up. It's only when you're down on the shot that conscious thinking can mess things up for you. If you're going to have any conscious thought at all while down, it should be something very simple, like, "stay down." The moment you ask the ill-timed question of whether the ball is going in the hole, you're dead.

Am I on the right track?

Yes, I'd say you are.

I think the "secret" is the ability to USE conscious thinking to play subconsciously... having the ability to go subconscious, at will (that is, consciously do it). You're still seeing the world consciously, but are eliminating distractions and unimportant (to the task at hand) things, so it seems subconscious but maybe isn't.

The ability to focus might be referred to as your RAS, your Reticular Activating System. RAS allows you to block out the furnace sounds, the tv, the talk, the temperature, your body's feelings, the ticking clock, your tight shoes, etc. so you can get on with life. It is a self-preservation thing. Just imagine if every stimulus was consciously entering your mind...you'd go nuts in about 30 seconds. So RAS allows you to live.

RAS can also be used to find new, valuable stuff. Ever have a refrigerator go out and suddenly, everywhere you look there's all these refrigerator advertisments? Actually, they were there all the time, but your RAS kept those ads out of sight to keep you from slowing you down. But now, a frig is needed so your RAS helps you find one. It's a cool concept that has many applications on the pool table, imho.

Here's a link on RAS, short but it might help you get started on learning and using your RAS more effectively:

http://www.newideas.net/attention_deficit/reticularsystempic.htm

Jeff Livingston

 

[Colin Colenso]

This is a great post. How come no one has responded to it? I have had similar experiences, Snapshot, although at a much lower level of competency.

Well the start of the post was boring so I didn't read through it all the first time.

But Snapshot makes an interesting distinction.

I would say what he describes is a different type of zone. Both types I would say utilize feel during excecution.

There is one zone where you hardly pay attention to the game situation. Barely enough to see your out route and go about doing it without a care or flinch in the world. Whe you get out of position a bit you change plan to the next route that jumps straight to your mind. This is the kind of style I get sometimes after a few drinks or when doing some familiar drills in practice.

Then there can be times in games when you concentrate intensely on shot selection. The mind races more so there is a different feel to aligning. You seem to stare harder and to be closer to the balls visually and mentally than at other times. It is in this mode that you may achieve feats more remarkable, because you are eliminaning possible errors that come from lazy decisions, such as asking your self, does it 'look like it's going in' or 'is it 100% going in'.

My best example I can find of reaching the 'intense zone' was winning 15 straight racks in race to 3's on the loser's side of an English 8-ball tournament. 4 of the 5 players were past Autralian reps (or champions) and the other led the tournament stats that year. I must have ran 10 of the racks first shot at the table and couldn't recall an error in any of those racks. I just really wanted to be on that table, because all challenges seemed solvable by intense thought.