Footprints

[RSB-Refugee]

A lot of questions are always asked about machinery, but I would like to know, what are their foot prints? How big should a shop be? What type of place do you have? There are a lot of options, pole barns, garages, basements, old downtown buildings. What kind of square footage is too small, or too big? I would think too hang wood, you would want a ceiling of about 10', but if it were too high, climate control could be more difficult. If building it from scratch, how thick should the concrete be, to handle the weight of the machinery? Basically, please describe your current digs and what you would like to have different, if it were feasible.

Tracy

 

[ShootingArts]

no real answer

There is no real answer to your question. Very nice cues come out of a 12X16 converted storage building that is well organized and has the lightweight machinery in it. Likewise, very nice cues come from shops that are industrial type buildings that could also easily produce almost any variety of heavy commercial woodwork.

You have to start with a consideration of what you have in the way of a building or don't have, and the funds available. I strongly recommend contacting SCORE or some of the other free services to put together a real idea of start-up costs. 85% of new small businesses fail. Of that 85%, most fail because they are under capitalized. It is recommended that you have at least six months operating capital including living expenses after you have paid all start up costs and are in business. That usually isn't possible for most of us but gives an idea of what is recommended.

Cost out the equipment to build a top quality cue with Blud, Cueman, and the handful of other specialty equipment makers, and then cost out the building to house that equipment, have working room around it, and then add fifty percent to that building size at a minimum.

I realize that this post was more about how to answer your own question than giving you a concrete answer but in my opinion you are the only one that can answer your question. I am new to cue making but I have owned or leased somewhere around a dozen shops over the years.

Here is a link to a small shop that worked. http://www.cuesmith.com/index.php?page=shop_layout

Hu

 

[RSB-Refugee]

There is no real answer to your question. Very nice cues come out of a 12X16 converted storage building that is well organized and has the lightweight machinery in it. Likewise, very nice cues come from shops that are industrial type buildings that could also easily produce almost any variety of heavy commercial woodwork.

You have to start with a consideration of what you have in the way of a building or don't have, and the funds available. I strongly recommend contacting SCORE or some of the other free services to put together a real idea of start-up costs. 85% of new small businesses fail. Of that 85%, most fail because they are under capitalized. It is recommended that you have at least six months operating capital including living expenses after you have paid all start up costs and are in business. That usually isn't possible for most of us but gives an idea of what is recommended.

Cost out the equipment to build a top quality cue with Blud, Cueman, and the handful of other specialty equipment makers, and then cost out the building to house that equipment, have working room around it, and then add fifty percent to that building size at a minimum.

I realize that this post was more about how to answer your own question than giving you a concrete answer but in my opinion you are the only one that can answer your question. I am new to cue making but I have owned or leased somewhere around a dozen shops over the years.

Here is a link to a small shop that worked. http://www.cuesmith.com/index.php?page=shop_layout

Hu

Hu,
You are right, about nice cues coming out of little shops as well as bigger ones. I do not know what SCORE is. I was not looking for a definite answer, but more interested in, people's thoughts on what works well and what does not.

Tracy

 

[JoeyInCali]

Here is a link to a small shop that worked. http://www.cuesmith.com/index.php?p...looking shop but a metal lathe is a must imo.

 

[rhncue]

A lot of questions are always asked about machinery, but I would like to know, what are their foot prints? How big should a shop be? What type of place do you have? There are a lot of options, pole barns, garages, basements, old downtown buildings. What kind of square footage is too small, or too big? I would think too hang wood, you would want a ceiling of about 10', but if it were too high, climate control could be more difficult. If building it from scratch, how thick should the concrete be, to handle the weight of the machinery? Basically, please describe your current digs and what you would like to have different, if it were feasible.

Tracy

My shop has 1800 sq.ft., used to be a post office but the space is poorly utilized by me. I think 10' ceilings are a probably waste of energy. The front part of my shop, where I do most of my work has 8' and I've never had an occasion when I wished they were taller. The back part of my shop has 12' ceilings and truthfully, they are a pain in the ass. Lighting is not as good and much harder to change bulbs. Have no idea how much equipment you have or intend to aquire so it's hard to say how many square feet you need. A good guess would be is to figure what would be comfortable with the equipment you will be using, plus room for a little office and maybe a pool table for customers to try out your cues and when this is all figuired out, double it. Seems as there is never enough flat work space. I've got work benches every where and I still don't have near enough. If you are a very neat person and put everything away as soon as you are done with it perhaps you won't have the problems that I have finding workbenches to actually work on. In my shop it seems the work benches have become shelves. A few weeks ago when a pile of magazines or something fell over I think I saw my desk top.
I am a firm believer that any shop needs to be climate controlled. Going from cold to hot and hot to cold and humidity swings are bad for equipment, chemicals, wood, and all else that go's into a cue. Your lathes will rust, your wood will go south and your glues and finishes will go bad and your concrete floor will crack. Understanding this, will help in the depth of the concrete needed for a solid floor. With climate control, 5" is plenty thick and strong enough unless you intend using beheameth machinery. Most 12X36 or 40" lathes run in the 9-1500 lb. range. this would be no problem at all for 5" concrete. I have one lathe that ways more than 4,000 lb. and have never had a problem with it. I like a trowled floor also as it makes sweeping much easier. A couple thick rubber floor mats are great for places where you spend a lot of time standing.
It is always best for the shop to be split up into different rooms. Dust emitting equipment in one room, a finishing room with a clean air supply, a room for the noisy air compresser and dust collection system, a little office and a room for general equipment. Computers and CNC equipment must be in a clean enviroment. You need a good electrical panel with a good supply as you certainly don't want to drop a circuit breaker or have a drop in voltage when running CNC.
Dick

 

[RSB-Refugee]

My shop has 1800 sq.ft., used to be a post office but the space is poorly utilized by me. I think 10' ceilings are a probably waste of energy. The front part of my shop, where I do most of my work has 8' and I've never had an occasion when I wished they were taller. The back part of my shop has 12' ceilings and truthfully, they are a pain in the ass. Lighting is not as good and much harder to change bulbs. Have no idea how much equipment you have or intend to aquire so it's hard to say how many square feet you need. A good guess would be is to figure what would be comfortable with the equipment you will be using, plus room for a little office and maybe a pool table for customers to try out your cues and when this is all figuired out, double it. Seems as there is never enough flat work space. I've got work benches every where and I still don't have near enough. If you are a very neat person and put everything away as soon as you are done with it perhaps you won't have the problems that I have finding workbenches to actually work on. In my shop it seems the work benches have become shelves. A few weeks ago when a pile of magazines or something fell over I think I saw my desk top.
I am a firm believer that any shop needs to be climate controlled. Going from cold to hot and hot to cold and humidity swings are bad for equipment, chemicals, wood, and all else that go's into a cue. Your lathes will rust, your wood will go south and your glues and finishes will go bad and your concrete floor will crack. Understanding this, will help in the depth of the concrete needed for a solid floor. With climate control, 5" is plenty thick and strong enough unless you intend using beheameth machinery. Most 12X36 or 40" lathes run in the 9-1500 lb. range. this would be no problem at all for 5" concrete. I have one lathe that ways more than 4,000 lb. and have never had a problem with it. I like a trowled floor also as it makes sweeping much easier. A couple thick rubber floor mats are great for places where you spend a lot of time standing.
It is always best for the shop to be split up into different rooms. Dust emitting equipment in one room, a finishing room with a clean air supply, a room for the noisy air compresser and dust collection system, a little office and a room for general equipment. Computers and CNC equipment must be in a clean enviroment. You need a good electrical panel with a good supply as you certainly don't want to drop a circuit breaker or have a drop in voltage when running CNC.

Dick,
Thanks, that was a good description. I almost feel like I took a tour. Those are all things to think about, before looking for a place. I like the several rooms idea.

Tracy

 

[Sheldon]

It is always best for the shop to be split up into different rooms. Dust emitting equipment in one room, a finishing room with a clean air supply, a room for the noisy air compresser and dust collection system, a little office and a room for general equipment. Computers and CNC equipment must be in a clean enviroment. You need a good electrical panel with a good supply as you certainly don't want to drop a circuit breaker or have a drop in voltage when running CNC.

This is GREAT advice... and Don't forget the wood room.

 

[JoeyInCali]

This is GREAT advice... and Don't forget the wood room.

Where does the pool table go?
Joey~Stuck in SoCal where there is hardly room to think~

 

[ShootingArts]

Score

Hu,
You are right, about nice cues coming out of little shops as well as bigger ones. I do not know what SCORE is. I was not looking for a definite answer, but more interested in, people's thoughts on what works well and what does not.

Tracy

Tracy,

SCORE is the Service Core of Retired Executives. Some very knowledgeable people who are active in retirement. They and the information that they help you to put together can be a huge help avoiding obvious pitfalls when starting any new business. Most of us are much better at handling the technical side of things while letting the business side "take care of itself". The best thing about SCORE is that it is the equivalent of hiring a high dollar business consultant if you use them properly, for no cost!

The hard truth is that a good businessman who tends the business side and has a half-assed product often does better than a great craftsman who doesn't take care of the business end well. Of course the best approach is to cover both ends, have a great product and a good business ethic.

Hu

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Tracy,

SCORE is the Service Core of Retired Executives. Some very knowledgeable people who are active in retirement. They and the information that they help you to put together can be a huge help avoiding obvious pitfalls when starting any new business.

Thanks, I will go to Google and see what it is about.

Tracy

 

[Hal]

My macining ability is a direct result of air temperature. All I need is some good ole' AC and you'll receive a quality precision model well within the provided tolerances.

 

[DaveK]

My macining ability is a direct result of air temperature. All I need is some good ole' AC and you'll receive a quality precision model well within the provided tolerances.

I get a real bad surface when running my shaper in my unheated garage in the winter ... shiver shiver shiver ... btw Hal, don't you run an EDM, which is always under the control of a computer ? Or does your G code get buggy when it's hot

Dave

 

[blud]

shop sizes

What can you afford? This is the way most build a shop. A small garage, building or basement.
I've had shops from 3,000 sq.ft to as small as 288ft.and every size between. I just closed a shop in Houston earilier this year that had a CNC 2-headed mill, dowel sander, 13X40 engine lathe, a spin lathe 12 X 36, two work benches for inlay work, a totally inclosed spraybooth, sink for washing up, thickness sander, thickness plainer, jointer, plenty of room for wood storage and supplies, a desk, for taking orders, including a kick-ass player for jams.
The shop was only 12' X 24'. plenty of room.
Whatever works. It seems that cuemakers make due with all sizes of shops. My next NEW shop will be 2,400ft, that includes a welding shop that's about 600ft. for building machinery.
blud

 

[mjantti]

I just closed a shop in Houston earilier this year that had a CNC 2-headed mill, dowel sander, 13X40 engine lathe, a spin lathe 12 X 36, two work benches for inlay work, a totally inclosed spraybooth, sink for washing up, thickness sander, thickness plainer, jointer, plenty of room for wood storage and supplies, a desk, for taking orders, including a kick-ass player for jams.
The shop was only 12' X 24'. plenty of room.
blud

Wow. That's pretty impressive use of space there.

I've always wanted to visit a true cuemaker's shop. Still not possible around here. Which leads me to another question(s): What percentage of cuemakers (famous ones) are willing to take visitors to their shops ? Or is there something you need/want to cover or hide when having visitors over ? Any secrecy by some cuemakers ?

 

[blud]

it takes time

Wow. That's pretty impressive use of space there.

I've always wanted to visit a true cuemaker's shop. Still not possible around here. Which leads me to another question(s): What percentage of cuemakers (famous ones) are willing to take visitors to their shops ? Or is there something you need/want to cover or hide when having visitors over ? Any secrecy by some cuemakers ?

mjantti, I hide nothing. It will take any visitor a long time to creat his own reputation building cues.I have turned a few guys down who want to have a look-see. They were not the types i want around me and mine. Those types, you shake there hand, you got to count your fingers. Hopefully, all fingers are in place.
Come on over, I'll show you my shop. There's things that I can show you, and by the time you get back home, you would of forgotten over 3/4 of it.
Some cuemakers have a big problem with me teaching cuemaking and building and selling machinery. It's creating to much compatiction for them. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!guys please.
All they have to do is work real hard to stay on top.
When I teach cuemaking, I teach you at your speed of learning. I want you to learn the right way, and grasp all I teach.Down line after I teach you, if your good, you will creat some new methods on your own. And that's good

MACHINERY!
I think I build and sell the best machinery. It's not cheap, and it's not out of line either. It's solid and will last many many years. The only thing that has ever happened to any of my machines is maybe a computer board burns up after much use. It's just a computer board, easily replaced. The mechanics of my machinery has never given a problem to any of my customers.It all heavy duty. To hold close tolorances, it requires MASS. Mass, is weight in machinery.You just don't load your trunk with my machines and got to do repair work at a local tourney. I do have a new machine in the works that is smaller and light duty, and it also hold tight tolorances.Will let you all know when it's market ready.
blud

 

[sliprock]

I've got another footprints question for BLUD. On your taper saw machine, How much room/space would a potential buyer need to have for your machine? will it fit in a 6ft X 6 ft open space? Also, What kind of electric would I need to have? I assume that it's single phase stuff. Not interested in messing with phase converters. Thanks..

 

[blud]

size of foot print

I've got another footprints question for BLUD. On your taper saw machine, How much room/space would a potential buyer need to have for your machine? will it fit in a 6ft X 6 ft open space? Also, What kind of electric would I need to have? I assume that it's single phase stuff. Not interested in messing with phase converters. Thanks..

Hi slip,
The CNC 4 blade saw requires 24" X 72" space, either 115/230volts single phase. It's a bad a** machine. It can be loaded from one side, [The mechanical one is 30" X 72", and has only 2 blades]..


The 4 blades are sharpened on there own arbor. Never have to remove the blades from the arbor to have them re-sharpened. Just send them out to have them sharpened all the same size, still on the arbor. A good modern saw shop can do this. Or, you can send them to me, and I'll do it. Takes a while to sharpen them, but they last for about a year before they need to be re-sharpened.

I now have 5 of them in differant stages of completetion. McDermott Cue has purchased one, and 4 other customers get the others. All are 4 head-CNC. They will take up to 31" of stock in lenght.This machine allows you to cut shafts, butts, handles up to 31", and fronts as short as 13". With CNC you can have many tapers for all your needs. The fixture floats on square rails with bearings good for 1,800 lbs each. Built stout as hell.The machine weighs in at about 700 lbs..Steady as a big rock...really.

There's a company who claims to be the worlds leader in selling cue machinery for re-pairs and cue construction. THAT"S a bunch of BS. Way back, 25 plus years ago, I sold 376 repair machines in 3 years, including a tape showing how to repair cues. To date I have sold over a 100 mechanical and CNC machines for cuemaking. Just wanted to bragg a little, guys.[really tired of there claims].I build machines, not tinker toys.

Please don't get mad.Please...I've paid my dues.
blud

 

[Hal]

I get a real bad surface when running my shaper in my unheated garage in the winter ... shiver shiver shiver ... btw Hal, don't you run an EDM, which is always under the control of a computer ? Or does your G code get buggy when it's hot

Dave

I'm a conventional machinist who has recently moved into more concentrated EDM operations.