? for team captains....how do you deal with egos

[lorider]

I think that it's quite likely that you did the right thing. (Actually, I'm quite sure of it, but for the objectivity sake in the discussion....) You know these players and none of us do. Yes, trying to talk to them about it is a better solution than setting the team up for likely losses, and I'm assuming that you have either done so, and/or simply know that it isn't going to work.

This is one one part of the larger issue of being a team captain. That is, the people management portion of the job. We all have ego's, and we all have feelings. Keeping everyone moving in the same direction without causing friction and issues can be a major headache. It all depends on the people on the team.

I have had enough headaches in team management that I am quite selective now about adding people. The good news is that we have very little turnover on the two teams that I'm on, and we all get along famously, so we just don't face those challenges. (OK, my 8-ball team does have a couple of players that can create a little drama, but I think we have that corralled, and fortunately some of my other players help me with keeping that contained.)

Good luck with them. I expect that you should have it better going forward, at least for a little while.

Yea dub I have tried to tell them in a nice way a few times that they are over rated . As you know people dont take kindly being told that they aren't as good as the think they are. Their reply was ...look at my record...i have more wins than you.

Well like I said in my 1st post....you think you are that good ...get out there and prove it.

It did not turn out too good for them.

 

[Celophanewrap]

You hit the nail on the head cell....exactly my point I was trying to make.

Both are overated in my opinion but in order to keep my team in the top half of the standings to qualify for play offs I have been matching them up where they win quite often. Well its went to their head so to speak and neither are as good as they think they are.

They are both fairly new to apa and just dont realize how much stronger other players at their handicap are...or even guys who are lower handicapped than they are. They just play one night a week and just know the players in their divisions. I play in 5 divisions and know almost every one in town

Perfect example is last sessions playoffs..it came down fo the Las match and we were pretty even..i threw my 5 that claims he oughta be a 6. They threw a damn good 3 and I thought ...oh shit this is gonna be close.

I tell.my guy to play smart....keep the cue ball under control and to avoid crazy shots where he nigh wind up giving bih because his opponent will make him pay for it.

He tells.me ...i got this....heck he is only a 3. Well when it was over we won but the 3 only needed 1 point. My player said.....wow ! ...that guy almost beat me ...i can't believe he is only a 3. I told him that 3 has been to Vegas more years that my guy has been playing pool.

He asked how that guy stays a 3 all these years as good as he shoots. I said he shoots like a 3 all year long but shoots like a 4 in playoffs or higher.

I was recently told (by a wise man, or a wise ass, I haven't decided yet) that from losing comes wisdom, or something along those lines. If they allow themselves to be managed by you or someone else that knows how, their win loss will probably be a little over 50% and they'll be rated right where they should be, but they will also be smarter pool players and can match up and be ready to match up with a similarly rated player or even a higher rated one. Just tell them you'really smarter than you look :grin-square:

 

[lorider]

I think you have to decide what your job should be as team captain. I think first and foremost your job should be to use your expertise to help your team win, fairly and legally.

I think that rather than teach them a lesson at the expense of a team loss, I would have discussed it with them beforehand. If they really want to jump in against a better player, then fine, but let them know where you stand on the topic and that if it doesn't work out, then they should agree to trust your judgement for future match-ups.

Good advice...just how do you tell people that you like that they are not as good as they think they are ?

Actually I dont think either want to jump up against better players. They both gave me that uh oh look the other night lol..

For those that thought I may have an ego problem also ....maybe a little but I am also a realist. I have way more experience playing league than these guys.

Facts below.

Couple hundred matches in bcapl....couple hundred I. Napa ....1100 in apa.

The one who says he oughta be a 6 has 132 apa matches the other has a grand total of 28....neither have ever played in any other league

I have played in the Las 6 ltc' s . A dozen tri cups....countless playoffs. ..napa nationals twice....apa.nationals once.

Neither have ever played in a tri cup or higher. 1 has played in one playoff and the other has never played.

As Fran said....being the captain its my responsibility to keep the team in contention I do that by matching up my players with the best opportunity to win. Being the best player ..imo ... And the most experienced I always match up with the best...knowing if I dont win I will at less keep us close and rely on the rest of the team to do their part.

It has worked out good as one team is in 2nd place in one 9 ball division and the other is in 2 ND place in both 8 and 9 ball.

To clarify....these 2 guys pls on 2 teams with me..i have no one else with ego problems but these 2..all they think about is looking at the stats and thinking....hey I have a better win record than lorider and I oughta be a 6..

Well.ego aside ....here are the stats for this session.

Me..
Thur 9 ball 43%
5a.the one who wants to be a 6...53%
5b the new guy with 28 lifetime matches 60%

Sun double jeapordy
Me ...8 ball...38%....9 ball...43%
5a ...............27%.................61%
5b................52%.................52%


Total this session
Me ...55% with 55 matches on 6 teams including masters
5a.....53% with 30 matches
5b....54% ..with 28 matches

As you can see they both have better win % than me on the teams they play on with me and she they look at those stats it gives them a false sense of accomplishment. They dont stop and think that they hardly ever pls Amy one i dont think they cant beat and that j always play the other teams best.

When you look at the total stats you see I have a slightly better win % with 25 more matches from other teams this session Including masters.

Call it ego bruising from them if you like ....i call it reality.

Oh yea.....forgot to mention. 5b who has 28 total matches is a 3 in 8 ball..like I said...when he 1st joined he trounced a 3 in his 3rd or 4th match I believe and was raised to a 5. He has stayed that due to my matching up and some decent play from him but I can not believe a legitimate 5 in 9 ball will only be a 3 in 8 ball.

 

[lorider]

I was recently told (by a wise man, or a wise ass, I haven't decided yet) that from losing comes wisdom, or something along those lines. If they allow themselves to be managed by you or someone else that knows how, their win loss will probably be a little over 50% and they'll be rated right where they should be, but they will also be smarter pool players and can match up and be ready to match up with a similarly rated player or even a higher rated one. Just tell them you'really smarter than you look :grin-square:

Was typing a long winded post while you replied ..

 

[ElLeon]

I run statistical analysis for the team that shows what ranks they beat on average, plus their 1-year history against each rank. There are no cocky people on my team, but those who start to feel that their win % defines them as a player, you can just point out that they usually loose to rank X or Y, and that they have been getting too many matches that give them a natural advantage in handicap.

Then I throw them in those tougher matches with the preface that this is one of the "tough matches" and they need to try their best. If they lose then I point out that win % isn't everything. They still have a lot to work on as a player and person to be more complete.

Oh, then we share a beer and I usually have more stories of losing horribly in tough matches... This lets them know that we all suck in our own way and not a single person on the team is immune to a bad match or tough handicap.

 

[lorider]

After the events that have transpired this last week I thought I would bump this thread with an update.

My wanna be 6 got his wish last Sunday. She I got to Sunday night playoffs and went over the scoresheet I saw said player had been raised to a 6. I wondered how the heck that happened and then it dawned on me. He also plays on my Thursday night team. Last Thursday the team we faced had only 3 players show due to most were in Vegas.

During the 3rd match I asked the other team if they had any one else coming and they said no..i told them their 3 could replay the 4 th match and they would have to forfeit the 5th. I talked it over with the co captain....the just raised 6 that I was going to leave since I could not play due to handicap level and I lived 45 minutes away and he only lived 10 . He said sure since I had let him leave early a few times. Our 5th player...his wife also left early since there would not be a 5 th match. As soon S I pull in my driveway he txt's me and says a 4th player showed and I asked who. He replied e. Showed. A terrible 3 who nigh run 2 balls starting with bih. I told him to replay our 4. Well.he decides to jump on that 3 himself after the other team allows him to resulting in our team reaching 24 total handicap.....allowed in Bylaws during regular session. Well my wannabe 6 crushed that 3 18-2. I guess he wanted to redeem himself after losin to their 6 earlier. That match resulted in him being raised to a 6.

Back to sunday night double jeapordy playoffs. In case you are not familiar with double we play both 8 and 9 the same night...consequently you may play both in playoffs depending on where you finished regular session.

My team qualified for both which means I played both formats at the same time. Our opposing 8 ball team did not qualify for 9 si they had their entire team to concentrate on 8 ball. Just so happened that our 9 ball opponents qualified for just 9.

To make a long story short my new 6 gets beat 18-2 by a 7. We lost by 4 points. His getting raised hurt us. We did manage to win 8 ball though.

Now comes this past Thursday playoffs.

1st here is our conversation through txting the day before.

Me...hey we got playoffs tom. Night here is when and where.
Him. Ok.
Him . I see we play so and so.
Me yea that's right.
Him..it oughta be a cake walk through them....it might only go 4 matches.
Me. You never know....they might come out firing .
Him.. They are all 3's and one 4.
Me. Dont underestimate them.

Thursday night playoffs.
1st match. My 1 loses to a 3 by 17-3
2nd match . My good 5 wins vs a 3 by 17-3.
I look at my new 6 and say ...cakewalk huh ?
3rd match..my other 5 who the op was about loses 17-3 to a 3
4th match...my new 6 loses to a 4by 13-7.
game over . I told my new 6. At least you were right about it not going 5 matches.

Here is the kicker. He decides to drop off my Sunday team to start his own team. Taking his wife...her good friend...the other 5 that was in my op. I was told by one of the players that stayed that he did not like the way I matched people up.

I thought I did a pretty good job as we were in the top 3 all.session in both 8 and 9 and also managed to keep our handicaps where I thought they should be without doing any sandbagging.

No sour grapes on my part ...i honestly wish him the best. He might have done mw a favor since I managed to pick up 2-6's including the one who sent my other 5 in the op him early with his pride hurt due to an 18-2 beat down. I realm hope he stays a 6 cause he cant spot me 8 points. Even ...i will admit its a pretty close game but like I said ...he cant spot me 8 balls. He even admitted to me Thursday night he lost to that 4 due to he could not spot him that many ball. Oh yea...if he had still been a 5 he would have won and I possibly could have pulled out a big enough win vs their last 3 to give us a chance to come back in the 5 th match.

Dang I hate drama. I like the guy but sheesh .

 

[Scott Lee]

lorider...In almost 40 years of teaching I have almost never seen a poolplayer who didn't think their stroke was better than it is. Quality video analysis is the equalizer! Once they see for themselves what the flaws are in their stroke process, it's up to them whether they wish to put in the work to improve it...or not. Seen lots of both situations over the years. For those that put in the work, improvement is almost a given. For those that don't...well that old adage comes to mind..."if you keep doing what you're doing, and expecting a better result...that's called insanity!" :thumbup:

I like how you handled these situations, btw...reality often sucks! LOL

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

What is my problem is players thinking they are better than they really are.