force follows

E

eze123

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You know force follows? I mean specifically like when the first ball is on the rail and the cueball is about 30 degrees at an angle and the second ball is a little behind the second and the cueball arcs around the first with lots of follow towards the second? I think it's an artistic shot, there's a strobe shot of it in the old Hoppe book. Or like a smash thru double the rail where you go thru the ball with follow and reverse english.
I can't quite make it. I can make a force follow if the cue ball's in the middle of the table, you just have to muscle the stroke and the first ball gets out of the way, spin takes over and you just make it. On these shots I always end up deflecting off the ball or rail, or I can get it to follow, but just not enough.
What's the secret? I can do a normal follow through shot, I can actually do a couple light masse shots too, but I always just f this one up. I can get out of safeties where the two balls are close the rails with reverse and adjustable follow, but then I'm an idiot on this shot. I've got to the point where I know it's not speed that does it, just the hit and a good stroke, but I'm missing the last piece of the puzzle. Anyone? Bob Jewett knows the physics behind this one.
 
Try to overemphasize the follow both on your cue ball and also your stroke. Also, make sure your stroke is either 100% level or even angled slightly UPWARDS to ensure the follow is extreme.
 
eze123 said:
... I've got to the point where I know it's not speed that does it, just the hit and a good stroke, but I'm missing the last piece of the puzzle. Anyone? ...
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It is partly speed that does it. You can't do the "double the rail reverse the corner" shot with a soft stroke. After hitting the ball hard enough, you have to hit it far enough off center. These shots take more than half a tip of spin. During practice, make sure your tip is chalked well. You should be miscuing at least occasionally so that you know where the limit is. In play, make sure your tip is chalked well, and hit inside the miscue limit. Finally, you need to find the right mix of side and follow. If the cue ball is still spinning like a top at the end of the shot, you wasted some side spin that should have been follow.

If the cue ball is far from the first object ball, then the table will put the follow on for you is you don't hit the ball too hard. If the cue ball is close to the object ball, you have to provide the follow by hitting high.

Finally, shots like the doubling the rail are easier for a certain fullness of hit. Experiment.
 
Thanks for the tips. I know the smash thru shot takes speed, but I'm still working on the arc follow one. I'm pretty close to making it. The angle the tip upwards thing actually works, thanks, Jim. If I hit straight on I tend to just 'hit' the ball instead of driving it. If I angle up it seems like I concentrate more on getting the friction between the tip and the cueball, if you know what I mean. I started out really slow, not hitting hard at all, just pushing the cueball through and making it follow, or even just stopping instead of bouncing off. I can make the cueball follow to just short/long, depending on what you call it, of the corner, so I need a couple more inches to get it, but I couldn't get close before
The smash through I can make off and on, it's almost just like muscling the ball through like a normal follow, but this other one's given me trouble.
 
Also, I want you to try very hard to concentrate on Following Through the ball with your stroke. Don't jump up after stroking. Try to "OVEREMPHASIZE" the follow through with your stroke. I know Bob Jewett will disagree with me, but for whatever reason, it works extremely well for me. Don't poke it or snap it. Follow straight through as much as possible. See if that works for you.
 
jimshovak said:
Also, I want you to try very hard to concentrate on Following Through the ball with your stroke. Don't jump up after stroking. Try to "OVEREMPHASIZE" the follow through with your stroke. I know Bob Jewett will disagree with me, but for whatever reason, it works extremely well for me. Don't poke it or snap it. Follow straight through as much as possible. See if that works for you.
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Yeah, it's why I've been doing it slow speed. I just try to really push the ball where it's supposed to go. If I get it right it stops and follows, not that far because it's slow but it gets the cueball out of the way and goes in the right direction, so I think I'm on the right track. The upstroke seems to make me less likely to just smack the ball - you can't just hammer it, you have to push through the ball right - it's either good follow or a miscue up the ball.
 
I used to think I knew the limit of where I could hit the CB for Extreme follow but always had trouble with making the ball burn rubber after the 1st OB. Then a pro showed me just how high, high english is. I was shocked.

Note what Bob Jewett said. Expect to scratch once in a while.

Just speculating here but Jim's suggestion to lower the butt below level simply changes the CB center and you're in effect hitting the CB higher than it may appear from your perspective.
 
You are also, in effect, masse-ing the ball UPWARDS when you hit at an upward angle, so you get MORE follow action, just like a masse shot gives you a lot more curve than normal.
 
jimshovak said:
You are also, in effect, masse-ing the ball UPWARDS when you hit at an upward angle, so you get MORE follow action, just like a masse shot gives you a lot more curve than normal.
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I'll have to think about that a while. But first I'm going to hit the hay.
 
eze123 said:
Or like a smash thru double the rail where you go thru the ball with follow and reverse english.
Click to expand...

Bill Maloney in Fort Lauderdale demonstrated to me about seven months ago that he plays this shot muuuuuch better with no sidespin. He made it a ton of times in a row to illustrate his point on a Verhoeven he had in his new room (before the table's heater was even up and running yet). Try it and you'll see how with just the follow and no spin you can keep the ball glued to the rail on its way back to the red.

I'm not one to say that any given technique is necessarily better or worse than another, but switching to this method did help me a bit - you might like it.

Now if only I could make it three times out of five, every time!......
 
The follow is what does the trick-absolutely.
You may, however, need sidespin depending on where you want your cue ball to go after it gets to the corner. The more sidespin (with follow, of course), the more it diverts away from the corner.
 
A 12 o'clock hit is all top english and a 3 o'clock is all side spin. Any side spin must decrease top spin because you can't hit the ball as high.
 
that is true. so therefore, you sometimes can use high only, but many times you also need high with some english.
 
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