Forfeit One's Integrity to Win a Game?

ridewiththewind

ridewiththewind

♥ Hippie Hustler ♥
Silver Member
So....I had a league match last night. We play under BCAPL rules; 8 Ball Jack-n-Jill.

We were playing a team known for winning....but I was playing some of my best pool in a year...couldn't do anything wrong it seemed...and we got out ahead of them in wins.

The gal on the visiting team gets BIH, and calls her partner to the table. She's on the 1 on the short rail opposite end of the table to the 8 ball sitting just off the tit of the corner pocket. I kinda thought it was a bit hinky for her to call her partner up, as she is a pretty sporty player, and the shot looked like a no-brainer to me. She sets down the CB in what I felt was a good place for it in order to get shape on the 8. Her partner then picks up the CB and lines up the shot and sets the CB down and even sights through the CB to the intended pocket. At this point I am saying, "you can't do that"...but my partner/Captain didn't hear me, so I went over to let him know what was up...by then, she had not only shot the 1 from where her partner had set the CB, but then pocketed the 8.

Her partner, who is also on the Grievance Committee, as well as the 'go to' rules guy comes over and says, 'Well, it's too late now, the game is over.....and I looked all over and couldn't find that rule that said I couldn't touch the CB when it was XXX's BIH." Wha, wha......WHAT?!!!

I explain that it is addressed in the BCA rules, and if there is need for clarification, I can always contact Mark Griffin. He's like, 'who the 'f' is Mark Griffin?" I explain that he's basically the one to talk to within the BCAPL organization. His response is, "But we're not BCAPL." To which I respond.....but you have adopted BCAPL rules for league play....you can't have your cake and eat it too. I was basically told I didn't know what I was talking about.....I left, livid.

Now, these are so not rookie players, and have been competing at the BCAPL Regionals in Lincoln City for years. I guess the fact that we were actually playing better pool than they were that night was more than he could bear.....but to so blatantly cheat to win?! Really?!!!

I have lost all respect for this player, who I thought was a straight shooter. I guess live and learn.

Needless to say, it is my last season with this league.

Thanks for listening.

Lisa
 
Lisa

Is Jack n Jill the same as Scotch Doubles?

Buddy will check in here in a minute. He is in charge of the BCAPL Rules....randyg
 
randyg said:
Lisa

Is Jack n Jill the same as Scotch Doubles?

Buddy will check in here in a minute. He is in charge of the BCAPL Rules....randyg
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No, it is not the same. It is basically partner play, rotating innings...not shots at the table. He basically did everything but take the shot for her...but he might as well have.

Thanks Randy!
 
Response

Lisa,
First of all I'd like to mention that they way you explained in your story on how it went down last night is way off and nowhere near how it all happened. I was there & Jake never said any of that & also said to your captain & co-captain that he wasn't sure off the top of his head if it was a foul & offered the game to your team. Since your captain & co-captain couldn't find this in the rules anywhere and the fact that it wasn't called until 3 shots later he declined the offer to take the win. I'd also like to mention, which you forgot to, that you tore down your stick & walked out leaving your team high and dry in the middle of the match knowing they wouldn't have enough people to finish. This should've been an issue handled within our league & you could've contacted another grievance member or the president.
 
mullyman said:
And people wonder why pool doesn't get huge or that it has a bad reputation.
MULLY
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MULLY maybe you should have said, people PRETEND to wonder why pool doesn't get huge or that it has a bad reputation. IMHO People know, but tend to ignore the problems.:wink:
head-in-sand.jpg
 
KimmyD said:
Lisa,
First of all I'd like to mention that they way you explained in your story on how it went down last night is way off and nowhere near how it all happened. I was there & Jake never said any of that & also said to your captain & co-captain that he wasn't sure off the top of his head if it was a foul & offered the game to your team. Since your captain & co-captain couldn't find this in the rules anywhere and the fact that it wasn't called until 3 shots later he declined the offer to take the win. I'd also like to mention, which you forgot to, that you tore down your stick & walked out leaving your team high and dry in the middle of the match knowing they wouldn't have enough people to finish. This should've been an issue handled within our league & you could've contacted another grievance member or the president.
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Oooo someone created an account to refute your post.....


Catfight go!
 
KimmyD said:
Lisa,
First of all I'd like to mention that they way you explained in your story on how it went down last night is way off and nowhere near how it all happened. I was there & Jake never said any of that & also said to your captain & co-captain that he wasn't sure off the top of his head if it was a foul & offered the game to your team. Since your captain & co-captain couldn't find this in the rules anywhere and the fact that it wasn't called until 3 shots later he declined the offer to take the win. I'd also like to mention, which you forgot to, that you tore down your stick & walked out leaving your team high and dry in the middle of the match knowing they wouldn't have enough people to finish. This should've been an issue handled within our league & you could've contacted another grievance member or the president.
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Here we go!
 
KimmyD said:
Lisa,
First of all I'd like to mention that they way you explained in your story on how it went down last night is way off and nowhere near how it all happened. I was there & Jake never said any of that & also said to your captain & co-captain that he wasn't sure off the top of his head if it was a foul & offered the game to your team. Since your captain & co-captain couldn't find this in the rules anywhere and the fact that it wasn't called until 3 shots later he declined the offer to take the win. I'd also like to mention, which you forgot to, that you tore down your stick & walked out leaving your team high and dry in the middle of the match knowing they wouldn't have enough people to finish. This should've been an issue handled within our league & you could've contacted another grievance member or the president.
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Actually, I did mention that I was livid and left. I also did not mention either the league's name and location, or any of the people involved...it's called discretion. Now, since I was sitting right at the end of the table that the incident took place at, and you were across the bar...I might have a better clue as to what actually happened and as to what the actual conversation was (and it was as I relayed it in my initial post.)...since you did not join into it. It should also be mentioned that you are involved in a long-term relationship with the person who committed the 'foul'.

Actually, last time I checked, MY captain had asked me at the beginning of the season to be co-captain....exactly because I watch the games so closely.

As I have previously stated...no names were mentioned...and I was venting my frustration with the entire incident. No one would have known the characters involved until you decided to join here with the sole purpose of refuting my claims. Since I am a very long-time member here in very good standing, with a high reputation for fairness and honesty, and had nothing to gain by my post....your statement may be met with a modicum of skepticism by others here. I have no personal bone to pick with you....but must ponder if this same action would have been attempted in a BCAPL-sanctioned event, such as Regionals....I tend to think not.

Lastly, my captain contacted me immediately after the match and again after talking to the President, who allegedly stated that he too would have had an issue with what took place. While I was there, there was no offer to 'give' us the game...and my captain did not mention anything of the kind during our two conversations. I did however find out shortly after my post here that your team did graciously allow the other female player to play out my games as well, which I thought was a nice gesture...but the damage was already done, seeing as my team did not get another win the rest of the match. Mission accomplished, I guess.

Like I said, no worries, as I have no intention of playing in the league again....and I may not be the only one.

Thanks again for your response.


Lisa ======> has heard some rumblings of discontent.
 
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Shortside K said:
Get over it. It shouldn't be that important. Storming out and abandoning your "Team" shows a lack of maturity.
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Didn't storm out, but yes, for the first time in my life, I walked out on a match. Since you obviously don't know that I have some serious crap going on in my personal reality...I look to league as a chance to leave it all behind. It was because of that that I had not initially planned to play this year at all.....I was 'begged' by a couple of different teams.

So what, I am supposed to ignore a blatant 'cheat'?! Really?!

Sadly, leagues in this area have a history of drama...but when I call a foul, then play should stop. I did clearly say...."you can't do that!"

BTW...telling me to get over it.........I have every right to respond to a post full of hearsay and falsehoods.

Lisa
 
mullyman said:
And people wonder why pool doesn't get huge or that it has a bad reputation.
MULLY
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If I won a million dollars, I would hold an invitational tournament. I would not allow Earl Strickland or any of those other "professional pool player" nits (there are a few). There would be a strict dress code and there would be plenty of press.

It takes effort to shine a positive light on this game. Too bad the delusions of grandeur (money) blinds so many in the game that it gets pulled back into the mud every time it tries to crawl out.

Poolmouse
 
anytime you break it down and ," leave, livid," you automatically are the loser of all debate in a dispute. Chalk it up and continue. Be cool. Don't look like a fool.:cool:
 
12310bch said:
anytime you break it down and ," leave, livid," you automatically are the loser of all debate in a dispute. Chalk it up and continue. Be cool. Don't look like a fool.:cool:
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He's on the Grievance Committee and she's a league official....I had lost that argument before it ever started. I am not going to beat my head against the wall over stupid crap...as far as I am concerned, I'm done.
 
ridewiththewind said:
He's on the Grievance Committee and she's a league official....I had lost that argument before it ever started. I am not going to beat my head against the wall over stupid crap...as far as I am concerned, I'm done.
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The BCAPL Rulebook Sourced from:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook.aspx


States:

1.41 Coaching
1. During your match, it is a foul if you ask for or intentionally receive assistance in planning or executing any shot.
2. Any person, except your opponent, who offers any significant assistance to you, whether verbal or non-verbal, will be removed from the area.
3. The Administrative Authority of the event may modify this rule for team or doubles play. (AR p. 84)

Applies Rulings p. 84
1.41 Coaching
It is common for Administrative Authorities to modify or relax coaching rules during doubles or team play. It is also common to have controversies caused by that situation. When coaching rules have been modified, you must be sure that you understand the modifications and that you take care not to violate them.
Billiards-related written reference material may not be consulted during your match. Exceptions: Score sheets (including foul counts and any other necessary scoring information) and other match-related administrative material. The BCAPL Rule Book may also be consulted. However, a match may not be delayed unnecessarily to consult a rule book. If you have a rules-related question, summon a referee for assistance.

I hope this helps.
 
dr9ball said:
The BCAPL Rulebook Sourced from:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook.aspx


States:

1.41 Coaching
1. During your match, it is a foul if you ask for or intentionally receive assistance in planning or executing any shot.
2. Any person, except your opponent, who offers any significant assistance to you, whether verbal or non-verbal, will be removed from the area.
3. The Administrative Authority of the event may modify this rule for team or doubles play. (AR p. 84)

Applies Rulings p. 84
1.41 Coaching
It is common for Administrative Authorities to modify or relax coaching rules during doubles or team play. It is also common to have controversies caused by that situation. When coaching rules have been modified, you must be sure that you understand the modifications and that you take care not to violate them.
Billiards-related written reference material may not be consulted during your match. Exceptions: Score sheets (including foul counts and any other necessary scoring information) and other match-related administrative material. The BCAPL Rule Book may also be consulted. However, a match may not be delayed unnecessarily to consult a rule book. If you have a rules-related question, summon a referee for assistance.

I hope this helps.
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You sir are an absolute peach!!!
 
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