Four Contributors To The Death Of Pool

Not really, no. I don't get why you pick and choose your stats. (Let's forget ding junhui, shall we?) :rolleyes:

When one third of the entire population stay tuned after midnight for a pool match, I'll start to pay attention. You're free to air your own pool matches - do it, see if you can compete with snooker. :rolleyes:

Yep. China skews the stats of anything and everything when a Chinese player is involved. We don't count "sideshows," remember? Yao Ming drawing 200 million viewers in multiple games, which is a higher view count than any soccer match that isn't a World Cup Final.

Lol. Moving the goal posts now. This snewka match drew 18 million! I provided a pool match that drew higher, now the only thing that will get your attention is, "1/3rd of the population has to stay up after midnight."

Pool was popular for a century as a spectator sport, with competitors playing for purses higher than golf at one time, Greenleaf making more money than Babe Ruth. Snewka was in the shitter for a century, with the greatest player of all-time playing for 6 pounds.

Things fall in favor and out of favor. It happens, and the answers to why are never simple. And especially now with the public fickler than ever.
 
PJ needs to run it past Dr Dave first, but Google and the rest of the world say it's hoist.

You're right. I stand corrected.
Also, my apologies for the slur regarding the good people of your fine country.
Sometimes my alligator mouth over loads my hummingbird ass. :)
 
All of the ideas put forth in this thread are more or less viable, but seriously it's the mass exposure that is the problem. How do you fix that? That's easy, Color of Money 2 or some such other movie. Pool got incredibly popular after the movie launched. Do you think poker would be where it is today without Rounders? These games have been around forever. It's no coincidence they exploded after the movies came out. Poker had some savvy people that took the Rounders wave and surfed it. They created and produced the shows, which are little more than engines to keep the sport in people's view. They also gave the audience a way to know what's going on and participate mentally with the hand cams combined with hand win %. That's the type of stuff that holds participation levels. I imagine that someone could do a stat overlay on the pool table for shot percentages. Possibly combine those with an ELO score to get a composite likelihood of success for a give shot. Something or really anything to allow the viewer to mentally participate in the game and without being an expert. These games won't die. The hardcores and the casuals will always be there, but the mass appeal follows the same rules as all other pop culture does. That is always the angle.
 
Yep. China skews the stats of anything and everything when a Chinese player is involved. We don't count "sideshows," remember? Yao Ming drawing 200 million viewers in multiple games, which is a higher view count than any soccer match that isn't a World Cup Final.

Lol. Moving the goal posts now. This snewka match drew 18 million! I provided a pool match that drew higher, now the only thing that will get your attention is, "1/3rd of the population has to stay up after midnight."

Pool was popular for a century as a spectator sport, with competitors playing for purses higher than golf at one time, Greenleaf making more money than Babe Ruth. Snewka was in the shitter for a century, with the greatest player of all-time playing for 6 pounds.

Things fall in favor and out of favor. It happens, and the answers to why are never simple. And especially now with the public fickler than ever.

Snooker remains popular 40 years after being brought to the masses via tv. Pool is dead 40 years after our entertainment and leisure industries diversified, and offered choice to the public.

What does that tell you?

It tells me you should quit whilst you're behind and troll something where you are on firmer ground.
 
Snooker remains popular 40 years after being brought to the masses via tv. Pool is dead 40 years after our entertainment and leisure industries diversified, and offered choice to the public.

What does that tell you?

It tells me you should quit whilst you're behind and troll something where you are on firmer ground.

"Edited out this reply since it's superfluous to the devastating blow I landed to your shit argument below."
 
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Ahh, finally found some ratings from the Philippines:

Most telling of all, the SWS found out that over 20 million Filipino viewers watched the world championship in 2006 and again in 2007 – a viewership rating that ranks high up there with the biggest sports events held in the country.

https://poolepicenter.wordpress.com/a-bit-of-history/manila-pool-mania/

Makes sense, those were the years the World Championship was hosted in the Philippines with Alcano winning in '06 and Roberto Gomez facing off against Peach in the '07 Finals.

Higher rated than any SNEEEWKA match ever and currently dwarfs modern sneewka ratings, and that is just in the Philippines alone!

Feel free to spin and deflect away, or you could just swallow that English pride of yours and admit how totally wrong you were.

I'm betting on the former, unfortunately.

Edit

Last year, 21 year old Han Yu became the latest Chinese pool star to capture glory. The diminutive but fiery red head put on a clinic as she completely outclassed Taiwan's Lin Yuan Chun, 9-1, in the final. The match was seen by an estimated audience of nearly 100 million people watching live on China's state television(CCTV.).

Sneewka matches drawing 30 million in China. Cute.

We're done here, Ronnie Boy.
 
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Interesting article that I thought was worth sharing.


Four Contributors To The Death Of Pool

Pool will die unless we fix this sport
By Matthew Sherman, Billiards Expert

I love this post I found online by Johnny Henson of Baker, Montana. Here it is shared, warts and all. I'm all in as one of Henson's suggested reality show instructors!

Here are a few ideas that I feel could benefit billiards. I feel that billiards should be a high school sport with good instructors at the high school level. I feel that there should be a reality show in which 8 instructors are given 4 low level players of equal ability, 2 men and 2 women. They have one week to train their team. You play a match. The winning teams and instructors move on. Each week a team and their instructor are eliminated. Players nationwide will see the players progressing each week. This will encourage players to seek instruction on their own.

I would like to see 20 major cities put together a 10 player team league each. Have Eastern and Western divisions. 10 matches per week. 100 matches per season. Have matches played in pool halls through out the USA. Matches in all 50 states to broaden the fan base. Have the playoffs on YouTube and ESPN. Just some thoughts.

Johnny is so right and his proposal reminds me of the TK Pool Tour concept I developed with U.S. Open winner, Tom Kennedy. Henson's proposal is also eerily similar to discussions I've had with top pool teacher Dominic Esposito.
Esposito provides frequent billiards drills and lessons here at About.com.

Pocket billiards cannot hold a mere status quo. Like all other participant sports, it has to grow or it will die. Here are the obvious issues as I see them:

* As long as many poolrooms in the U.S. and overseas are also bars where alcohol is served, young people, high school age and under, will avoid the game. Today's fine young players are tomorrow's great new pros. As long as pool halls are also bars-cum-nightclubs and pickup joints, pool will be dying.

* The majority of avid pool players want a smoke free environment to play in. While I don't overly mind smoking in many places such as restaurants and clubs, blown smoke easily soaks into pool table cloth, makes it hard to see the shots in smoky rooms, and most halls are too cheap to provide effective dispersal of smoke via quality ceiling exhausts. Studies and pop polls have demonstrated that even most smokers would rather go outside for an occasional smoke than play in a smoky room. As long as pool rooms smell like ashtrays, pool will be dying.

* It is intolerable to have to give a pool lesson in a room with music blaring. It is awful to have play league games in loud rooms where players cannot hear game scores, called shots or team coaching. As long as room owners are more worried about a few quarters than player sanity, and thus have loud jukeboxes blaring (usually lousy) music in their rooms, pool will be dying.

* Henson's original point, of course, is that players need to develop via lessons. Every golf club, public and private in the United States, has at least one golf pro and likely several assistant pros ready to step up and give lessons. Everyone who has played golf a year or longer has likely taken more than one lesson or a whole series of beginner lessons. This fact remains despite recent reverses in golf's fortunes as a sport overall. Every tennis club likewise has pros who give lessons. Pool has complexities that rival the fanciest golf and tennis shots. Formerly, most every pool hall in the world had a "house man" who would show new players the ropes, give aid on rule disputes, demonstrate the basics and advanced shots, etc. As long as pool players avoid lessons and rely on occasional books or videos to adjust their personal stance, aim and stroke needs, pool will be dying as a sport.

Change these factors! Help save pool as a vital sport.

.........................................When I read you were a billiards expert , and having heard that statement by many, you discredited yourself right out of the gate, but your intentions are....good, me I'm synical after hearing this since the early sixties. Thee only Billiards Expert I know of is Mike Shamos.
 
Ahh, finally found some ratings from the Philippines:



https://poolepicenter.wordpress.com/a-bit-of-history/manila-pool-mania/

Makes sense, those were the years the World Championship was hosted in the Philippines with Alcano winning in '06 and Roberto Gomez facing off against Peach in the '07 Finals.

Higher rated than any SNEEEWKA match ever and currently dwarfs modern sneewka ratings, and that is just in the Philippines alone!

Feel free to spin and deflect away, or you could just swallow that English pride of yours and admit how totally wrong you were.

I'm betting on the former, unfortunately.

Edit



Sneewka matches drawing 30 million in China. Cute.

We're done here, Ronnie Boy.

Teeth perfectly straight naturally, thanks. It's called having great genes, not something you'd understand.

That's 30 million regular players, not spectators. Ding is a superstar, all day, every day. You appear to have a fixation with-one off dog and pony shows.

Now, is there anything else i can help you with?
 
Teeth perfectly straight naturally, thanks. It's called having great genes, not something you'd understand.

That's 30 million regular players, not spectators. Ding is a superstar, all day, every day. You appear to have a fixation with-one off dog and pony shows.

Now, is there anything else i can help you with?

Incidentally, those were also the ratings Ding drew in the 2011 World Championship Semi-Final:

In China, Ding Junhui's semi-final had an average watch of 19.4 million with a peak audience of 30 million over seven television networks.

Like I said...Cute. And Eften is a superstar in the Philippines. Pan is a superstar in China. Yada, yada, yada.

Lol. Calling the World Championship "one off dog and pony shows."

Can you ever just simply admit that you were wrong? Maybe say, "Wow, I didn't know pool drew that many viewers in those countries. Encouraging for our sport going forward. Hopefully the WPA can get their shit together and exploit those markets more effectively."

There's things that hurt worse in life, like visiting an English dentist or eating English food.

Don't help me, Ron. Help yourself. Admitting wrongness shows a lot of character.

You can do it, big guy.
 
Incidentally, those were also the ratings Ding drew in the 2011 World Championship Semi-Final:



Like I said...Cute. And Eften is a superstar in the Philippines. Pan is a superstar in China. Yada, yada, yada.

Lol. Calling the World Championship "one off dog and pony shows."

Can you ever just simply admit that you were wrong? Maybe say, "Wow, I didn't know pool drew that many viewers in those countries. Encouraging for our sport going forward. Hopefully the WPA can get their shit together and exploit those markets more effectively."

There's things that hurt worse in life, like visiting an English dentist or eating English food.

Don't help me, Ron. Help yourself. Admitting wrongness shows a lot of character.

You can do it, big guy.

So, you're still claiming pool is a bigger draw than snooker, correct?

I sometimes get a little lost with all the spinning and tedious yappery you do.
 
So, you're still claiming pool is a bigger draw than snooker, correct?

I sometimes get a little lost with all the spinning and tedious yappery you do.

Yep. The ratings and player participation numbers bear that out.

100 million in China alone for the 2014 World Champion Women's Finals compared to 30 million for Ding's highest rated match there in the past 5 years.

And in the Philippines, where you can say they see pool like the UK does snooker (as something of a national indoor sport), they tuned in at 20 million strong in back to back years. This was also the highest purse ever for a World 9 ball title, 100K to the winner.

"So why aren't they making money like snewka players!"

They approach snooker levels amount of money (those Women 9 ball players in China live like queens) when they actually play in a region that watches the game, which is why I've been saying to base the damn pro tour out of Asia instead of fruitlessly chasing North American and European markets.

American pool is an "Asian" game now.

And you're the only one spinning and yapping. I'm actually providing relevant stats and facts while you keep deflecting with questions, per your style.

Try spinning 180 and admitting you were wrong.
 
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Yep. The ratings and player participation numbers bear that out.

100 million in China alone for the 2014 World Champion Women's Finals compared to 30 million for Ding's highest rated match there in the past 5 years.

And in the Philippines, where you can say they see pool like the UK does snooker (as something of a national indoor sport), they tuned in at 20 million strong in back to back years. This was also the highest purse ever for a World 9 ball title, 100K to the winner.

"So why aren't they making money like snewka players!"

They approach snooker levels amount of money (those Women 9 ball players in China live like queens) when they actually play in a region that watches the game, which is why I've been saying to base the damn pro tour out of Asia instead of fruitlessly chasing North American and European markets.

American pool is an "Asian" game now.

And you're the only one spinning and yapping. I'm actually providing relevant stats and facts while you keep deflecting with questions, per your style.

Try spinning 180 and admitting you were wrong.

About what? :confused:
 
About what? :confused:

That no one watches pool and that pool isn't a draw on the level of snooker.

Cold hard facts disprove everything you've blathered about.

You can do it, big guy. It'll only hurt as briefly as passing English food through your bowels.
 
* As long as many poolrooms in the U.S. and overseas are also bars where alcohol is served, young people, high school age and under, will avoid the game. Today's fine young players are tomorrow's great new pros. As long as pool halls are also bars-cum-nightclubs and pickup joints, pool will be dying.

Those who would like to see the "game" become a "sport" would agree.

Unfortunately money talks. Pool in itself isn't enough to save itself.

Pool is a game. I came to terms with that a long time ago.

I wish it wasn't so, but it is what it is.
 
You seemed to have missed the funeral. It's not dying, it's dead. Nothing is going to cause a resurrection. When the pool halls died and the bars took over the game died with them. Pool is now an activity used to kill time between drinks or pick up attempts. It's days as a sport or game are over.
Right you are poster in quote
 
Here is a list of Olympic Sports... it's enough to make you want to puke.

Archery, Athletics, Badminton, Basketball, Beach Volleyball, Boxing, Canoe, Slalom Canoe, Sprint Cycling, BMX Cycling, Mountain Bike Cycling, Road Cycling, Track, Diving, Equestrian, Fencing, Football Gymnastics, Artistic Gymnastics, Rhythmic Gymnastics, Trampoline, Handball, Hockey, Judo, Modern Pentathlon, Rowing, Sailing, Shooting, Swimming, Synchronized Swimming, Table Tennis, Taekwondo, Tennis, Triathlon, Volleyball, Water Polo, Weightlifting & Wrestling.

I don't see Golf or Billiards in the Olympic List of 2012. Golf & Billiards are two of the most difficult things to do in Sports & they aren't included.

For some reason, they say we do not have a following, yet there are about seven hundred thousand plus league members, plus lots of other people who do not participate in league play. That is in America. When China came on the scene, they are purported to have brought 62 million players onto the Pool & Billiard World scene. There is plenty of interest in the game, yet the participants in America are not vocal bout their interest in this game. If you & 2000 of your friends started calling your local newspaper every Monday morning asking the Sports Editor about who won what & sending letter to Budweiser & Miller beer about that.... it might show up in the next Sunday morning's news. Look at the S**T that is in your newspaper, you have to scratch your head & your A$$ as you say to yourself, "what's this doing in here"..?

If you want to see some interest develop in our chosen game, become one the interested participants. There are many, many things we can do as a group, that may never get done by just One of us.
 
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