Fred and I

TheOne

TheOne

www.MetroPool.club
Silver Member
I decided to take a break from the forums for a day or two (for obvious reasons!) and its been interesting reading the comments about Fred and I. I've actually read both the pool and snooker threads twice (yes twice!!! :eek:) during this break and this is what I found.

There was a snooker v pool debate going on with a whole load of arguments happening at the same time, I joined the debate when somebody said something I agreed with. After that I tried to clearly state my opinion which often got twisted (by one user in particular who was obviously just looking for a flame war). As for Fred, I didn't and don't like the way he (IMO) replies to people. For example BEFORE I EVEN ENTERED THE THREAD these are some of the things Fred wrote to OTHER MEMBERS:


It's nearly a damned lie, if you follow these threads at all.

Are you even reading what I'm writing?

If you don't understand it, that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. It means you don't understand it.

Right. I lost all credibility. Boohoo. Woe is me. What shall I do? I have clueless people like you to set me straight. Lucky me.

Did you actually understand that someone asked a question, and that I answered based on some facts and knowledge? You should try that some time. Gather facts and knowledge. The world becomes a more pleasing place. Blind loyalty makes people unable to comprehend these posts, I know.

You had a case? That you didn't understand it? You kept talking about money. And kept saying that obviously money isn't the motivator. Do you even pay attention to your own "case"?

You then insulted Americans. That makes you an A-grade A-hole. And it also means you can't don't want to have a discussion and you don't want to be open to ideas that are obviously foreign to you. Read my words. You can learn from them, if you're not so blinded by your loyalty.


To this one poster actually replied:

Fred
I have been following this thread and read all the post in detail and all i can say is that you remind me of fast larry , so angry , just because peoples views differ with yours remember just because you say it is so , does not make it so.

After I joined the debate I was called names and personally insulted by Fred and LastTwo and also had jokes made about my playing ability. As difficult as it was to ignore and not return the insults I carried on the debate and tried to bring it to a conclusion. For no other reason than the interest of the forum I tried to find out exactly what Fred's position was so we could continue the debate in a more logical fashion. For this I was ridiculed again by LastTwo. After this Fred started to quote me as saying things that I had NEVER SAID! At this point by accident I discovered that Fred had a history of this behaviour on other forums so I decided to try and just put a stop to the debate (I enjoy the snooker v pool debate and I felt I had more points to make BUT I DONT enjoy arguing as others have suggested). It was not easy to just walk away from the debate as I did with Fred wanting to continue. However, I was also made aware that Fred was PMing people that had disagreed with him in the debate which was something I also didn't want to get involved in. But the bottom line is:

I couldn't see any purpose to continue if we could not even manage to agree an what we disagreed on!
 
I understand your frustration, Craig, and I definitely empathize with your stance, having been in the same position myself on occasion. It is difficult to respond sometimes when you feel very strongly about a subject matter in a thread that has evolved into personal bickering.

Please do not let this recent incident keep you from posting by any means. Keep 'em coming. It appears that the flame has self-extinguished itself due to the efforts of all parties involved. AND time heals all wounds.

Are you going to be coming to the Glass City Open in Toledo? It's a good one for TheOne! :D

JAM
 
JAM said:
Are you going to be coming to the Glass City Open in Toledo? It's a good one for TheOne! :D

JAM
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Or at least the Derby City Classic! I would like to hang out with you again as we had a good time in MD but not much of a chance to continue our drinking binge in VA. I think I owe you a beer if memoery serves me correctly and according to Tony Crosby, free beer is right up your alley (as it is mine) :D


Either way, I hope you make it over this way again sometime. :cool:
 
TheOne said:
There was a snooker v pool debate going on with a whole load of arguments happening at the same time,

BUT I DONT enjoy arguing as others have suggested).
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Man I love it when these arguments occur and I'm not even around or have anything to do with them. I should have been blamed anyway. :rolleyes:

Yes you do enjoy arguing...otherwise you wouldn't have done such a good job throughout the thread. :p (I'll get even with you, you wacky wabbit) :D LMAO

If I retire from AZ quick draw competition and hang up my guns and holster...can we put your name in the hat as a potential replacement? ;)
 
drivermaker said:
Man I love it when these arguments occur and I'm not even around or have anything to do with them. I should have been blamed anyway. :rolleyes:

Yes you do enjoy arguing...otherwise you wouldn't have done such a good job throughout the thread. :p (I'll get even with you, you wacky wabbit) :D LMAO

If I retire from AZ quick draw competition and hang up my guns and holster...can we put your name in the hat as a potential replacement? ;)
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I was waiting for you're retort! Arguing, it was debating!! and you're the master-debater DM :D

I can't imagine what would have happened if you'd been here stirring LOL

:eek:

JAM, that would be nice to go there but sadly I'm going to TRY and wait until January and play in DCC, UPA Finals and if selected the IPT, plus the British Open in Feb. Besides its been pointed out that I suck at pool so its time I actually started paying my dues and practising properely!

Hey Timb, actually that night in MD was probably the best piss up of my trip, and boy did I suffer the next day! It was funny about those double vodka redbulls that I was drinking, but I blame you for that. I'm not sure Tony or Richard will ever stop reminding me of my $8 drink in their rounds, what a sponge! Speaking of sponges, I hope you had a good time at the Open anyway and I can't wait until the next piss up! :D
 
Craig, I hope you keep on posting and are not quitting on us, eh ? If you do, next time I see you, I'll beat the doodoo out of you. :p

I understand that the forum life is sometimes confusing and people tend to read too much between the lines. It's the tone of the voice that is missing, thus giving totally false impressions and people get funny ideas about posts. This is usually when people are misquoted when they aren't actually quoted at all, it's the tone that isn't there which is "quoted". And I've already figured out to ignore all insulting posts. If someone starts the name-calling and other insults, I leave those posts alone and don't give much (read: none) thoughts on them. In the good ol' days at the RSB, this was called "plonking" someone. And I've plonked a few people here already. :rolleyes:
 
TheOne said:
I decided to take a break from the forums for a day or two (for obvious reasons!) and its been interesting reading the comments about Fred and I. I've actually read both the pool and snooker threads twice (yes twice!!! :eek:) during this break and this is what I found.

There was a snooker v pool debate going on with a whole load of arguments happening at the same time, I joined the debate when somebody said something I agreed with. After that I tried to clearly state my opinion which often got twisted (by one user in particular who was obviously just looking for a flame war). As for Fred, I didn't and don't like the way he (IMO) replies to people. For example BEFORE I EVEN ENTERED THE THREAD these are some of the things Fred wrote to OTHER MEMBERS:


It's nearly a damned lie, if you follow these threads at all.

Are you even reading what I'm writing?

If you don't understand it, that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. It means you don't understand it.

Right. I lost all credibility. Boohoo. Woe is me. What shall I do? I have clueless people like you to set me straight. Lucky me.

Did you actually understand that someone asked a question, and that I answered based on some facts and knowledge? You should try that some time. Gather facts and knowledge. The world becomes a more pleasing place. Blind loyalty makes people unable to comprehend these posts, I know.

You had a case? That you didn't understand it? You kept talking about money. And kept saying that obviously money isn't the motivator. Do you even pay attention to your own "case"?

You then insulted Americans. That makes you an A-grade A-hole. And it also means you can't don't want to have a discussion and you don't want to be open to ideas that are obviously foreign to you. Read my words. You can learn from them, if you're not so blinded by your loyalty.


To this one poster actually replied:

Fred
I have been following this thread and read all the post in detail and all i can say is that you remind me of fast larry , so angry , just because peoples views differ with yours remember just because you say it is so , does not make it so.

After I joined the debate I was called names and personally insulted by Fred and LastTwo and also had jokes made about my playing ability. As difficult as it was to ignore and not return the insults I carried on the debate and tried to bring it to a conclusion. For no other reason than the interest of the forum I tried to find out exactly what Fred's position was so we could continue the debate in a more logical fashion. For this I was ridiculed again by LastTwo. After this Fred started to quote me as saying things that I had NEVER SAID! At this point by accident I discovered that Fred had a history of this behaviour on other forums so I decided to try and just put a stop to the debate (I enjoy the snooker v pool debate and I felt I had more points to make BUT I DONT enjoy arguing as others have suggested). It was not easy to just walk away from the debate as I did with Fred wanting to continue. However, I was also made aware that Fred was PMing people that had disagreed with him in the debate which was something I also didn't want to get involved in. But the bottom line is:

I couldn't see any purpose to continue if we could not even manage to agree an what we disagreed on!
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LOL you are complaining about Fred's attitude and make no mention of your own. The reason why you pissed Fred off was because of your mocking and condescending tone with him. I hate to sound childish, but YOU started that (lol). And what was that about Fred PMing people? He is not the type of person that would PM someone and cuss them out (which is how you are trying to make it sound), etc. Perhaps try to explain something, yes, but that's about it. He is a good guy, but you brought out the worst in him (which was not that bad). You are trying to slander him after he has left, how low can you get?

My future advice to you is that if you ever get into a debate again, if you can't debate without the mocking tone and passive insults, don't expect anything different from those you are debating with. LOL :D
 
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iconcue said:
i think you owe him a case of beer after posting those pics! :D
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LMAO!! He wanted 'em! All they do is prove he had a good time & was feeling no pain...that night. :D
 
LastTwo said:
LOL you are complaining about Fred's attitude and make no mention of your own. The reason why you pissed Fred off was because of your mocking and condescending tone with him. I hate to sound childish, but YOU started that (lol). And what was that about Fred PMing people? He is not the type of person that would PM someone and cuss them out (which is how you are trying to make it sound), etc. Perhaps try to explain something, yes, but that's about it. He is a good guy, but you brought out the worst in him (which was not that bad). You are trying to slander him after he has left, how low can you get?

My future advice to you is that if you ever get into a debate again, if you can't debate without the mocking tone and passive insults, don't expect anything different from those you are debating with. LOL :D
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I suggest you read the above and all the posts if you can be bothered, the point is Fred was bashing people and speaking down on them long before I joined the thread. It is something he does here and in other forums. If he thinks I am mocking him he can mock me back, its funny how the mocking excuse only came up after I and others "called him out" for insulting me. To me, mocking can be done in a fun way, especially if (you ever met me) you would realize most of the things I say are sarcastic and mocking but in a fun way. That's a whole different world to calling people thick, and asshole's, etc. etc. I don't know if you're just Fred's buddy or if you where just looking for another excuse to flame me but either way I don't care. You have been bashing me for a while so I expect it from you, but I'll try and ignore you from now on! Fred is welcome back here as far as I'm concerned whenever he likes, I don't think he should have thrown his toys out of his pram and left in the first place but that's upto him.

I don't care for the way Fred reply's to people that don't share his point of veiw and if he really is an intelligent guy then he shouldn't have to resort to calling people names either. Many long time and respected users of this forum have contacted me and seem to agree with this, so don't dare blame me for Fred's attitude towards others!

:D
 
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TheOne said:
I suggest you read the above and all the posts if you can be bothered, the point is Fred was bashing people and speaking down on them long before I joined the thread. It is something he does here and in other forums. If he thinks I am mocking him he can mock me back, its funny how the mocking excuse only came up after I and others "called him out" for insulting me. To me, mocking can be done in a fun way, especially if (you ever met me) you would realize most of the things I say are sarcastic and mocking but in a fun way. That's a whole different world to calling people think, and asshole, etc. etc. I don't know if you're just Fred's buddy or if you where just looking for another excuse to flame me but either way I don't care. You have been bashing me for a while so I expect it from you, but I'll try and ignore you from now on! Fred is welcome back here as far as I'm concerned whenever he likes, I don't think he should have thrown his toys out of his pram and left in the first place but that's upto him.

I don't care for the way Fred reply's to people that don't share his point of veiw and if he really is an intelligent guy then he shouldn't have to resort to calling people names either. Many long time and respected users of this forum have contacted me and seem to agree with this, so don't dare blame me for Fred's attitude towards others!

:D
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I'm not going to stir any shit here, but just tell it like I see it from a half-assed point of view. And I say half-assed because I just couldn't get through the entire thread and force myself to read everything word for word.

Fred is a lonnnnggg time warrior of pool forums. And when I say long, I mean LONG. He's either been in some great wars personally, or, he's been an outside observer to some of the best in the business going at it.

Fred really IS an intelligent guy...not in just different areas of pool and equipment, but as a person in real life. He knows all the tricks of debating, one-upsmanship, put downs, flames, and everything else necessary to carry on in forum wars. Sometimes it isn't to "carry on" either...it's also to put an abrupt end to them. The quicker you can squelch something or somebody, more times than enough the better for one and all.

I've seen Fred stand up to the best and be very articulate. His posts a few months ago on CCB about aiming and Hal's methods should go down in the history books as one of the best individual efforts to explain...debunk...fend off losers...and help resolve an issue that seems to be ongoing on ALL forums about that particular subject. He did a GREAT job!

As you might have been able to tell, I ain't too bad at it myself. LastTwo is really damn good also. About a year ago I wanted to send some Mafioso types out to Calif. to break a few limbs of his due to the grief he was giving me. LMFAO...But now, we talk all the time and have the utmost respect and care for each other. He too is a super fella.

Sometimes the wars just catch up with you and everyone gets tired of them, even the warriors and you just throw out everything to end it as quickly as possible. There is a tendency at times to be curt and cynical. I have a feeling that's what Fred does and did. You also tend to do it when you KNOW somebody is talking with little experience in the game and they're so far off base about a subject that it's ridiculous. I don't think that was the case here, but sometimes that chemistry doesn't mix either...especially through the written word.

But let's face it...for everything you listed about Fred, the same could be done about your posts. I'm surely not going to do it...but you weren't an angel either.

But in the end...it's no big deal. Sometimes you lose at the table...and sometimes you lose an argument on the forum. And if that doesn't happen some poster is ALWAYS going to take a pot shot and try to make you look dumb or discredit you and your accomplisments. Nobody knows that better than I do. I'm just counting the days (maybe hours) until somebody jumps on me again from out of the woodwork.

As much as you've enjoyed yourself in person with others on this forum when you've had a chance to meet...something tells me it would be the same with Fred. I guarantee it!
 
Retire

drivermaker said:
If I retire from AZ quick draw competition and hang up my guns and holster...can we put your name in the hat as a potential replacement? ;)
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Do not RETIRE Drivermake, it would make things here BORING...... ;)
 
Hey Craig, sounds like you had a wicked time with Crosby and Timberly. She's a great laugh, i had a pleasure of meeting her at the 2004 expo when i was just starting out. Me also hope that one day i will be joining you guys for a mega piss up!!!!

AS for you the one...what the hell are you doing on this forum getting drilled by idiots!!!! you are too cool for all this Fred debate sh1t!!!

Fred you are a plonker ...goodbye!
 
Hey Craig, sounds like you had a wicked time with Crosby and Timberly. She's a great laugh, i had a pleasure of meeting her at the 2004 expo when i was just starting out. Me also hope that one day i will be joining you guys for a mega piss up!!!!

We all know that you are making sense so just keep it going....i am sure Fred understands!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D
 
Fred and Craig are both very good guys,they had been an asset for AzBilliard for quite a long time,so why must they fight?

You guys are the legend here,u should show some good example to the newbies like me,lol.

I hope u guys will apologies to each other soon.

Regards...
 
647km2 said:
Fred and Craig are both very good guys,they had been an asset for AzBilliard for quite a long time,so why must they fight?

You guys are the legend here,u should show some good example to the newbies like me,lol.

I hope u guys will apologies to each other soon.

Regards...
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How come the most grown up person here is also the youngest? Well said young man!!!
 
to Fred
I wanted to add some facts to the efren ronnie story . I personaly know a Guy who was there when the action happened
First RONNIE WAS NOT A PRO AT THAT TIME HE WAS ABOUT 14 OR 15 YEARS OLD AND THE TOUNAMENT THAT EFREN WON WAS NOT A PRO LEVEL TOURNANMENT . IT WAS NOTHING LIKE THE TOURNAMENTS IN ENGLAND .

anyway i just wanted to make things clear here

I played alot of snooker and find the game MUCH MUCH harder than 9ball
iam not a pro snooker player and when i switched to 9ball i've beaten alot of pros in that game !!!

Fred did you know that when John horsfall won Reno open he played with his snooker cue and he was not even a 9ball player at that time and he didnt have a good break in 9 ball at that time because he was a full time snooker player and he was not a pro either

anyway bottom line is Snooker a much harder game than 9ball
i played both games and thats what i came out with .

THE ONE i know how you feel
 
Craig,
For several years I have been crucified in most forums due to my honesty. Several years ago I took a stand against a woman that made roughly 50-100 posts per day on this forum and the CCB. It was ridiculous, and though I was publicly ridiculed for the verbage I used in stating my frustration, behind the scenes I received twice as many PM's praising me for having the audacity to say what others had wanted to say all along. In the eyes of some, that made me a *****. So be it. Whitewolf is the only person that is still holding a grudge over that, yet Bluewolf is a thing of the past. Your welcome.

I had several run ins with Fran Crimi several years ago. I felt as if she was talking down to me and to other people and I confronted her about it - privately (initially) and she made it public. Her mother passed away about 2 years ago and some classless jerk wrote a very ugly, demented post directd to Fran (which I never got a chance to read because it was removed very quickly) and I was blamed for it. I had absolutely nothing to do with it. I have publicly and privately attempted to apologize to Fran Crimi for our personal misunderstanding, yet she refuses to acknowledge any of my attempts to contact her. I guess that makes me a cold hearted ***** once again.

My war with Fast Larry is legendary. The forums were able to ban Larry, but it did not stop Larry from attacking me personally via private e-mail, calling my job, harrassing me constantly, sigining me up for gay dating sites, and trying to blame me for all of the problems he has had in these forums for all of these years. Though standing up to Larry was annoying to some people on RSB, it was necessary, and once again I had the audacity to do it - and admittedly it was a lot of fun - yet childish. I contend that I had to stoop to his level to be effective. Larry now affectionately refers to me as "The Deathstar - The Black Death ***** of Doom". Ask Larry, he wants none of what I have to offer in the heat of battle. Mission accomplished. Shoot me.

The point I am making is that not everybody is going to agree with what you say or what you do or how you do it or how you say it. That's a fact of life. Individual opinions are going to clash. That is to be expected. I can only be me. It is what I am best at. Not everyone is going to like me or what I say.

Anyone that makes a personal assessment of me from my posts is extremely shallow. The people that I have met through these forums have all been really cool in person. None of them expected me to be as short as I am, which is always funny. I believe there is much more to Fred than you are giving him credit for. On this subject, you don't see eye to eye. Don't write him off as an A-hole just because of that. Fred has always been very supportive and he has always been a very good friend to have (and he's cute). He's gone off on me more than once, but that's life. I don't hate him for it, in fact at times I deserved it and I know that. I don't even hate Fast Larry. I genuinely feel sorry for him and anyone that might be like Bluewolf. I wish Fran Crimi nothing but the best in all of her endeavors, I even bought her book. (Really!!! I did!!!)

And to Eydie Romano.... I meant no harm to you in any of my comments and I sincerely and publicly apologize for anything that may have upset you or embarrassed you. I was wrong to say what I said. Hopefully after all of this we can become friends. Perhaps we can set the standard for people putting aside their differences.

Debra Li
 
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