Free tournaments could resurrect pool...

[naji]

Again, pool's problem isn't players. Millions play pool each year.

Most pool halls have plenty of people playing daily, the issue with pool halls is just the business model in general.

They rely on people who must concentrate on what they are doing, to preoccupy themselves with food or alcohol. Its just not a winning business model.

That would be the same as a go cart track relying on alcohol sales to make money. You can't sell a service which requires a ton of concentration, then rely on food an alcohol to pay your bills, the two just don't go together.

This is why bars which either feature live music and dance or dance music sell so much more alcohol......the activities don't require them to concentrate and stay coordinated.

Pool attracts people who love to concentrate and are miticulous. This type of crowd is also something else......cheap. Or at least cheap when they are playing pool. So, raising the table rates will just drive them away.

Pool, in general is a barely break even venture, unless you're one of the lucky few who can turn a profit.

Pool halls shutting down isn't from smaller crowds, as much as it is from a poor business model of relying on alcohol/food sales to make a profit whilst using a high coordination game to attract customers.

(before anyone chimes in with "i see drunk people at the pool hall all the time," that's not the majority of customers)

There are only two things that will make pool itself profitable. 1, raising the table fees. This is why golf courses can operate. Their green fees are much higher than what it costs to play pool.(for the most part) This won't work likely, as people will just stop playing as they are used to lower rates. Pool tends to attract the not so wealthy as well.......or 2, turn pool into a spectator sport. Plenty of people order food/beer while watching other sports, not playing them.(pool will never be a spectator sport in its current form unfortunately.)

I've said many times over, pool is its own worst enemy. Its just one of those games that requires too much coordination to preoccupy yourself with alcohol, but its not enjoyable enough to watch that people will pay for it.

I am like you i love pool halls with only pool tables, but i think location of pool hall dictates which business model works, some locations have people that just want booze and food, other jurisdiction does not allow booze. But why not, mix it and make the most out of it, i know players there booze bill is higher than there pool time!
If it does not have booze then they would be no restriction on age, and all of a sudden pool tables cloth becomes table cloth!!

 

[CreeDo]

10$ per hour? I know Uncle Sam has a much higher standard, but still... In my region we play on coin-ops and it's 0.85$ per game. If each of us pays 2-4 games, we spend 3$ MAX on pool in one evening. I'm not rich but I'm far from poor, and even 3$ is more than enough for me to spend on pool. And when we combine it, we get a few hours of playtime for 8 or 9 $ all together. Paying 10$ for one hour would just be ridiculous and nobody would play anymore.

Your experience is pretty different from a typical player's, in a lot of ways.
One thing about coin op is, if nobody's running racks, you get your money's worth.
Games last ten+ minutes. So in that sense you're lucky.

A typical night out for my regular group is something like... play from 8 or 9 pm
to close (2 am), say 5 hours. At the places with meh equipment it's typically $5/hr per player,
so you're spending $25 on time. If we play at the places with great equipment,
it's $8.00 hour. One place has nice tables but limited space and on a weekend
charges a flat $18/hr per table no matter how many people want to use it.

A lot of the places offer a flat rate on slow days, $5 or $10. We milk those as much as possible.

 

[krupa]

10$ per hour? I know Uncle Sam has a much higher standard, but still... In my region we play on coin-ops and it's 0.85$ per game. If each of us pays 2-4 games, we spend 3$ MAX on pool in one evening. I'm not rich but I'm far from poor, and even 3$ is more than enough for me to spend on pool. And when we combine it, we get a few hours of playtime for 8 or 9 $ all together. Paying 10$ for one hour would just be ridiculous and nobody would play anymore.

No one will stay in business if they earn $3 per hour per table. That's unrealistic. If the pool tables were a secondary money-maker, a business owner may keep one around but they'd still earn more by replacing the pool tables with dining tables and serving drinks all night.

If people aren't willing to pay for quality equipment in a good environment, then that's what the market demands (or not as the case may be.) But you can't have it both ways. You either get cheap crap or "expensive" quality. (I put expensive in quotes because a) it's a relative term and b) I don't think $5-10 an hour for a 9' table is expensive.)

 

[hang-the-9]

10$ per hour? I know Uncle Sam has a much higher standard, but still... In my region we play on coin-ops and it's 0.85$ per game. If each of us pays 2-4 games, we spend 3$ MAX on pool in one evening. I'm not rich but I'm far from poor, and even 3$ is more than enough for me to spend on pool. And when we combine it, we get a few hours of playtime for 8 or 9 $ all together. Paying 10$ for one hour would just be ridiculous and nobody would play anymore.

$10 per hour is a very normal rate for table time in the US, especially on weekends. If it was cheaper it won't get any more players, just the same players playing longer. Who cares how many people show up to play for free if they don't spend any money. Most people that I see play in tournaments do not go spending money on food and drinks, especially if the tournament is cheap or table time is cheap. They show up to make use of the cheapness, not to spend the money on other things.

 

[Push&Pool]

Your experience is pretty different from a typical player's, in a lot of ways.
One thing about coin op is, if nobody's running racks, you get your money's worth.
Games last ten+ minutes. So in that sense you're lucky.

A typical night out for my regular group is something like... play from 8 or 9 pm
to close (2 am), say 5 hours. At the places with meh equipment it's typically $5/hr per player,
so you're spending $25 on time. If we play at the places with great equipment,
it's $8.00 hour. One place has nice tables but limited space and on a weekend
charges a flat $18/hr per table no matter how many people want to use it.

A lot of the places offer a flat rate on slow days, $5 or $10. We milk those as much as possible.

Don't get me wrong, but I think I'm more of a typical player than you are. You're a pool vet after all, and I guess your friends are somewhere at your level as well. So paying for table time instead of coin ops works better for you. There's no paying for table time where I live, coin ops only, but I prefer it that way Some of our games last almost 30 mins. I may be wrong, but I think the majority of pool players in the world are closer to my level. At least here they are, I don't know about the US...

No one will stay in business if they earn $3 per hour per table. That's unrealistic. If the pool tables were a secondary money-maker, a business owner may keep one around but they'd still earn more by replacing the pool tables with dining tables and serving drinks all night.

If people aren't willing to pay for quality equipment in a good environment, then that's what the market demands (or not as the case may be.) But you can't have it both ways. You either get cheap crap or "expensive" quality. (I put expensive in quotes because a) it's a relative term and b) I don't think $5-10 an hour for a 9' table is expensive.)

Pool tables are always secondary money-makers here, so it makes sense to make them cheap I guess :/ Even in the best place I know the quality still ain't especially good, therefore I think we pay them just enough.

$10 per hour is a very normal rate for table time in the US, especially on weekends. If it was cheaper it won't get any more players, just the same players playing longer. Who cares how many people show up to play for free if they don't spend any money. Most people that I see play in tournaments do not go spending money on food and drinks, especially if the tournament is cheap or table time is cheap. They show up to make use of the cheapness, not to spend the money on other things.

If you have no problems attracting players to your halls, then there's no need to lower the price. I was talking about places where interest for pool is much lower and where people need some "encouragement" in order to grab the cues. I'm still supporting the idea that free or very cheap pool is a good promotion for the game, but only if the customers order some drinks first :wink:

 

[vapoolplayer]

.................

 

[Push&Pool]

30 min games? If you're not playing one pocket, you need to get off this forum and spend more time in the pool hall.

I watched a few guys today who couldn't hold a cue, and they weren't taking 30 min for a rack of 8 ball......

1. At the moment I don't have time to practise a lot of pool, and I did much better before when I played regularly...

2. Complete beginners sometimes finish the game sooner than we do, cause they lack experience to play good safeties and defensive positions.

3. Bar rules we use allow much tougher defensive than official rules. If we played BCA I guess the games would be much shorter.

 

[Nine ... corner]

I think they should have free beer too! They can make up any losses by charging to use the mens/ladies room!!!

Lol ... that would be a losing proposition for me once the "seal is broken".