"Freeze Out"

[Biloxi Boy]

Jay wrote me the following:

"A Freeze Out and a Ahead Game are similar in that they must be played until someone wins and someone loses. There is no quitting at any other time. If there is any difference it's that in an Ahead Game one player must reach a certain number of games ahead and in a Freeze Out it can also be decided by quitting after a certain number of games are played (like 100 total games) or even quitting after a number of hours of play (like they stop at 12 Midnight)."

My understanding of "freeze out" remains imperfect, in large part because I have had no opportunity to see these new rules applied to a real game. (Also, I am not up to write a dissertation right now.) I am particularly wondering about the "stopping at midnight" version. How do you calculate the amount to freeze? Are interim payouts made? If so, are they made from the frozen funds or from separate funds? If there are no interim payments, accounting might be an issue. Finally, I can see how my confusion and the confusion found in the thread came to be.

 

[cjr3559]

I never completely understood the ‘freeze out’ betting proposition in The Hustler. The only thing I understood was the implication Eddie won 10 games in a row for $100. It’s not clear if the other player won any games.

The only thing said prior to playing is:

Let's cut out the small stuff, huh?
Hundred dollar freeze-out. Ten games,
ten bucks a game, winner take all.
And then we'll see who quits.

Then we confirm Eddie won games 1, 5, 6, and 10.

My impression was someone had to win all 10 games to get $100. But what if they split 10 games 5 a piece? Each person gets $50? Clear as mud.

 

[sjm]

Freeze out, to me, refers to freezing the money.

It sometimes meant the money had to be posted by the stake horses the day before the proposed match and, in the event of a no show, the stake would be forfeited. It was not uncommon in situations where one or both players had to travel to get to the site of the matchup.

I recall a match in Philadelphia between two pros in about 1980 in which both players froze up $500 but only one of them showed up.

 

[DynoDan]

I never completely understood the ‘freeze out’ betting proposition in The Hustler. The only thing I understood was the implication Eddie won 10 games in a row for $100. It’s not clear if the other player won any games.

The only thing said prior to playing is:

Let's cut out the small stuff, huh?
Hundred dollar freeze-out. Ten games,
ten bucks a game, winner take all.
And then we'll see who quits.

Then we confirm Eddie won games 1, 5, 6, and 10.

My impression was someone had to win all 10 games to get $100. But what if they split 10 games 5 a piece? Each person gets $50? Clear as mud.

You may have a point. Couldn’t be a race to 6 if only 10 games played. Must be a ‘10 ahead’ freeze-out match. The “we’ll see who quits” is the clue. ’10 ahead‘ format with well matched players could take forever, and also, it couldn’t be 5 wins each if “winner take all”. Eddie would ordinarily have let him win a few games to make it look good, if he hadn’t lost his temper.

 

[DynoDan]

You may have a point. Couldn’t be a race to 6 if only 10 games played. Must be a ‘10 ahead’ freeze-out match. The “we’ll see who quits” is the clue. ’10 ahead‘ format with well matched players could take forever, and also, it couldn’t be 5 wins each if “winner take all”. Eddie would ordinarily have let him win a few games to make it look good, if he hadn’t lost his temper.

Upon reflection though, I think a race to 10 more likely in that scenario. First one to win 10 games, rather than the typical $10 a game, back and forth (“winner take all”/$100).

 

[maha]

if you make the game right you get ten ahead reasonably soon. especially at 9 ball.

if its a close matchup why would you even play, let alone ten ahead.

but most fools will lose at least ten games to you anyway when you beat them. so its better to play game by game so they dont have a quitting point. and their quitting point is no more money.