Damn! You’re right, Jay. The 10-Times-Fuller aim is for making the head ball when two balls are frozen on the spot and the CB’s in the kitchen. I’ll correct my post.
Thanks (you bastard)...
pj
chgo
Frozen Ball Rule
- Thread starter Tennesseejoe
- Start date
Thanks (you bastard)...
pj
chgo
Ha Ha, it's not easy to fool Mother Nature or Patrick Johnson.
Depending on what I've been smoking...Ha Ha, it's not easy to fool Mother Nature or Patrick Johnson.
pj
chgo
In your example Patrick, if the 9 ball was in the upper left corner you could adjust your aim to make it. One example of a useful shot. ( Maybe due to the rail being there , I'll have to try it).
I just tried it and it works great.
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If the balls have been declared to be frozen, you may take a legal stroke through the ball. Pool rules still apply. WPA Rules.
randyg
randyg
Randy, then i am guessing that if the cue ball was frozen to each of two balls you could shoot in any direction. Do you agree?
As long as they're both legal to hit first. Otherwise you have to angle at least slightly toward the legal OB.
pj
chgo
That is a tricky situation that could come up often in One Pocket or 14.1. If the cue ball is frozen to an object ball and several balls are very close I think you have a double hit. In fact it would be hard not to have a double hit. Any opinions???
I agree the double hit is a likely risk, depending on the actual configuration of the balls. It probably depends on whether one of the balls caroms into the stick's followthrough line.
pj
chgo
That's okay by me, except when they shoot straight through the ball. That will always be a push shot in my book and should not be allowed. If you shoot through the ball at an angle you do not have to push it.
I think if you watch a slomo vid of that you'll see it's not a push. Both balls can clearly be seen leaving the cue tip together simultaneously.
Here's a vid of that from Dr. Dave: https://billiards.colostate.edu/high-speed-video/hsv-a-96/
pj
chgo
Of course there will be a foul with all those balls behind the front two blocking them from moving. If only the 15 and 5 were frozen against the CB, I think you could stroke normally and they'd both move away simultaneously - but I'm not sure if you have to aim (at least slightly) toward the "on" ball in order to "hit it first".
pj
chgo
We called that shot a foul for a million years before the BCA rules committee decided to allow it. I think it could be shown that the tip of the cue stays on the cue ball longer on that shot that on a normal shot. It is meeting resistance on contact.
I'm sure contact is longer than with a normal non-frozen shot, but is it longer, for example, than a normal shot with side spin? Bob and Dave have (or had) the ability to time tip/ball contact using high speed cameras - that's how we know normal contact time ranges from 1-2 milliseconds depending on the hit.
pj
chgo
my post above.....Actually Patrick, you bisect the angle between the straight line through the object ball and the path you want the cue ball to take. If you direct your stroke that way, you can now shoot accurately through a frozen ball. Try it, you'll like it.
I would direct you to page 71 of Shots, Moves and Strategies to see how I used that very shot to pull off a stunning upset of Jimmy Fusco in the last Stardust tournament in 1972.
Did you watch Dr Dave's video? He shot it with top, bottom, left, and right. There was no evidence at all you are pushing the balls. It may have been when slow motion video was made of that shot was the reason the BCA allowed it.
It is your opinion that the cue tip stays in contact longer. Ok.... so what if it does? First, show me the evidence that it does. Second, even if it does, there is still no double hit.... so no foul. Now put a small gap between them and the story changes.
I can show a soft tip stays in contact longer then a hard tip. Using the same logic, soft tips shouldn't be allowed. (That was an extreme example and I dont care what tip you use... I dont care if it does stay in contact longer, as long as there is no double hit)
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Thanks for posting that. Jimmy was very gracious after the match and complimented me on my play. He asked me to show him that shot and I explained it to him. By the way the diagram above is not totally accurate. The two balls were further from and more below the pack, but the essence of the shot is correct. (Eddie Robin made that illustration based on what I described to him. I think I made a drawing on a napkin at the Cue Club in Vegas when we were first talking about his book.) I was just trying to hit the top side of the object ball and move it toward my hole. Lo and behold it went in and the pack was wide open with the cue ball behind it.my post above.....
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