frozen on rail shot

PKM

PKM

OB-1 Kenobi
Silver Member
I was practicing shooting a shot with the object ball frozen to the rail and the CB just slightly off the rail so it's almost straight in. I realized that I am horrendously bad at this shot for some reason, and I had difficulty diagnosing my problem.

Anyone have advice on this? Is this just an indication that I have the hand-eye coordination of a blind man with Parkinson's?
 
You want the object ball to have side spin to make it hug the rail.

The cue ball must be hit with the opposite spin.

To maximize the spin transfer from cue ball to object ball, use pocket speed.

To roll a ball down the left rail, hit the cue ball between 7 and 9.
To roll a ball down the right rail, hit the cue ball between 3 and 5.

And you would like the cue ball to contact the object ball just before the cue ball hits the cushion.

I am sure others will tell you the actual correct method of making the shot. This is just my unproven theoretical solution. I'll try it out tomorrow.:D
 
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One thing that have you to consider is are you playing on a bar table?

On pocket tables this is a much more straightforward shot, just knock it in like you'd do any other shot.

But on a bar table, it's different. Most bar tables use a different size cue ball, which is bigger than the other object balls. Thus shooting the shot you described above could very easily result in the cue ball hitting more fuller on the object ball, than is needed to make the shot. In order to correct for this, you have to hit the rail a slight bit earlier than the object ball, and allow for the cue to slightly compress the rail before contacting the object ball.

So simply, try adjusting your aim point slightly earlier on the rail, than the normal expected cue ball simultaneously contacting rail and object ball.

If you want to test this theory, before correcting your aim point, then try taking the shot with an object ball and shooting it into another object ball that is on the rail. These two balls will be of equal size, so you may find that you are able to make this shot quite readily. If so, then that would explain your frustration, because you've always been aiming correctly, but didn't account for the bigger size of the cue ball.
 
In response to the poster above, you should first do your best to learn how to make this shot with no english...

Making shots of these nature solely by english compensation, can get you in trouble in the long run. For example what if the shot calls for opposite english or no english at all... ?
 
I struggled with this shot too.........

FLICKit said:
In response to the poster above, you should first do your best to learn how to make this shot with no english...

Making shots of these nature solely by english compensation, can get you in trouble in the long run. For example what if the shot calls for opposite english or no english at all... ?
Click to expand...


If the object ball is not more than a foot and a half from the pocket and the cue ball is not too distant you can aim into the rail slightly in front of the object ball a bit with inside english. Hitting into the rail compresses the rail a touch and allows you to get off the rail and even well away from the rail.

Works great with just a little practice.:) I believe this shot is one of Phill Capelle's "99 shots to master pool".
 
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Thanks Robert Byrne!!!!!

OK, these shots are easier to make than to explain.

On shots close to the pocket, they are fairly simple and can be made ball first or rail first, with a variety of spins.

Running a ball past the side pocket is easiest favoring a slight rail first hit, otherwise the ball with be thrown into the rail and bounce off.

To practice, try setting up a two ball frozen combo, and shooting it in trying to leave the first ball exactly where it started. You're make percentage will go up as the shot is much easier, but it will give you a feel for where to aim. Most importantly, it will help you get used to seeing the object ball coast into the hole, and will improve your ability to visualize the result. Once you feel like you can't miss, try the solo ball.........this practice technique has helped me gain confidence in many tough shots and is probably worthy of it's own thread.........
 
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One trick I learned was to use the track in the cloth as the aiming point. The track will be the center of the ball. This is the spot on the ball that you have to hit. Unless the cloth is brand new there will always be this track.
 
PKM said:
I was practicing shooting a shot with the object ball frozen to the rail and the CB just slightly off the rail so it's almost straight in. I realized that I am horrendously bad at this shot for some reason, and I had difficulty diagnosing my problem.

Anyone have advice on this? Is this just an indication that I have the hand-eye coordination of a blind man with Parkinson's?
Click to expand...
if at all possible i dont SHOOT the shot i ROLL it in , try that afew times smooth stroke and roll the shoot let me know STICK:D :D :D :D
 
I think part of the problem is that you're thinking about the rail when shooting this shot. Try to pretend the rail isn't there, and shoot it like any other shot into the pocket. Imagine the ghost ball, and aim for that spot just like any other shot. If shooting down the long rail past the side pocket, there is the chance of catching the tit on the way down even if you hit it good, plus it's not that easy to just ignore the rail and visualize the ball to pocket in this situation. It's definitely not the easiest of shots. All of these other tips such as shooting a little into the rail, using helping english, etc may be helpful, but I would first suggest to just try to treat it like any other shot and take the complexity out of it, then add these other tips in later.


- Mitch
 
I would also add that you should make this a progressive drill. Start out with the object ball and cue ball close together and close to the pocket where it is easy to make. If you make it, move the balls farther away. If you make it again, move farther away, if not go back to being closer. Continue in this manner practicing this shot for 10-15 minutes each time you practice for awhile. You should see this shot become much easier for you after just a short time. For myself, I find that rail shots are among the toughest to be consistent at (especially long, thin tapers). There's no such thing as too much practice shooting them.
 
Scaramouche said:
You want the object ball to have side spin to make it hug the rail.

The cue ball must be hit with the opposite spin.

To maximize the spin transfer from cue ball to object ball, use pocket speed.

To roll a ball down the left rail, hit the cue ball between 7 and 9.
To roll a ball down the left rail, hit the cue ball between 3 and 5.

And you would like the cue ball to contact the object ball just before the cue ball hits the cushion.

I am sure others will tell you the actual correct method of making the shot. This is just my unproven theoretical solution. I'll try it out tomorrow.:D
Click to expand...
First of all, you said left rail on both occasions. Also, the OP stated that the cue ball was close to the rail. You cannot hit 3 to 5 o'clock OR 7 to 9 with the cue ball close to the cushion.
 
i posted a thread bout this a while ago and got a lot of great answers and i think theres a vid link too and by the way i learned this shot and it has come up 3 times in competion so this is a useful shot to learn and forget
 
I had better luck with it when I slowed down the speed, but as soon as I try more speed all bets were off. And then it's hard to tell which side I'm favoring, since it's coming off the rail either way.
 
Try this experiment. Shoot this shot with some follow (slight) but make your stoke smooth, level, slow,and fluid and FOLLOW THROUGH a little extra. Exaggerate the follow through and exaggerate your grip to be extra light. Just a few finger tips. Stay down to watch the ball going into the pocket. See what change there is.

Have your cue tip end up 6 to 8 inches beyond the original cue ball position after that smooth follow through. See that your grip at that point is very light. Almost slow motion throw your stick at this shot. Nothing hard, just fluid and loose wrist.
I'd be interested in what you find. If I explained myself halfway decently, I'll bet you never miss the shot again. :) Once you get that feeling down, you will be able to adjust your english any way you want. Remember, stay level, parallel to the table, and smooth follow through.
 
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